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Is Joe Kinnear vying for a return to Newcastle?

Posted on July 4th, 2009 | 122 Comments |

Mr Expletives ready to manage again
Mr Expletives ready to manage again.
Remember this?

JK: Which one is Simon Bird?

SB: Me.

JK: You’re a c*nt.

SB: Thank you.

JK: Which one is Hickman? You are out of order. Absolutely f*cking out of order. If you do it again, I am telling you you can f*ck off and go to another ground. I will not come and stand for that f*cking crap. No f*cking way, lies. F*ck, you’re saying I turned up and the players f*cked off.

SB: No Joe, have you read it, it doesn’t actually say that. Have you read it?

JK: I’ve f*cking read it, I’ve read it.

SB: It doesn’t say that. Have you read it?

JK: You are trying to f*cking undermine my position already.

SB: Have you read it, it doesn’t say that. I knew you knew they were having a day off.

JK: F*ck off. F*ck off. It’s your last f*cking chance.

That was part of Joe Kinnear’s well-publicised tirade of expletives last October just after he took over the manager’s position at Newcastle. To be honest, regardless of what I think of Joe’s managerial abilities, I had a certain amount of sympathy for him. The press were ripping into us at every opportunity (they still do) and they gave him a particularly rotten time after he was named as manager. That’s not to say I’m endorsing such behaviour – Joe really should have risen above it and acted professionally – merely that I can understand his frustration with the relentless press ridicule the club suffers and his desire to strike back. In the end of course it just led to more ridicule. It’s the sort of thing that would have been much funnier if it had happened at another club.

Anyway, it seems Joe is ready for a return to management after being given the all-clear. Joe said:

“I’ve gone from bad to being much, much better than I was. I’ve got the all-clear. Things are working out well for me. I feel as fit as a fiddle.

“I love the game. I’m desperate to get back into it. It just depends where and when. I just hope it happens sooner than later.

“My contract was up at the end of the season. Mike knows I’m still available. I’m not sure how far down the road they are of selling it.

“I spoke to Mike last week. He told me he has people very much interested in it and maybe the decision for me to go back there is away from him, because obviously new owners might come in.

“Obviously if they don’t and they haven’t got anybody else I thoroughly enjoyed my time when I was up there. I thought I did well up there. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the people. I enjoyed the team.

“I’m pretty sure that the run I got the team on at the time, it would have seen us through, but it’s a bit late for that now.

“My opportunity would be to support Mike and Derek (Llambias). They are the people who gave me the job in the first place. If it does come, with the same scenario as last season, then I’m ready for the fight.”

So it looks like he’s vying for a return to Newcastle management, although I can’t imagine it will happen. Still, at least Joe’s heart is fixed, although presumably they didn’t address the Tourettes.

NUFCBlog Author: Hugh de Payen I'm a baby-boomer of the punk rock persuasion, currently exiled in Somerset for crimes committed in a previous life where locals keep trying to poison me with something called 'scrumpy'. Hates sprouts, coat-hangers, Cilla Black, ornaments, Steven Seagull movies and 50 Cent (he's not worth 10). Hugh de Payen has written 634 articles on this blog.

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122 Responses

  1. Poor Joe. You’ve got to feel sorry for him. Just when he had his big chance his poor old coronary arteries let him down. Whatever you think of him as a manager, I will always feel grateful as an NUFC supporter that he came in when no-one else would touch the Toon managers job (including Shearer who was firmly wedged onto the BBC sofa) with the proverbial barge pole. Despite everything he did his best with a very difficult situation. Saying all of that I don’t believe he is the man to take us forward and it remains to be seen if shearer is either.
    Hopefully Joe will manage to blag himself another job in football. I would like to wish him well.
    Interesting that he spoke to MA one week ago. It just shows people are talking to each other behind the scenes we just don’t know about it.

  2. Despite the prejudice he got from the the psychologically damaged ingrates of Tyneside, and the stirring media who know how to wind us up like a clockwork toy, he’s still a very decent manager who could have saved us. Our treatment of him was an sad indication of how nasty, contemptable and lacking in grace we are now.

  3. workyticket’s inferiority complex shows it’s self once again. Keep repeating “I’m a Londoner, I’m a Londoner…” and I’m sure one day it will be true.

    That being said, I don’t think Joe did any worse than anybody else would have done in his position.

  4. Worky I don’t believe we would have been relegated if Joe hadn’t of needed CABG surgery at that point in the season.
    Sadly your analysis of his treatment and the mindset of a proportion of our fans is true.

  5. My opinion of Kinnear is he steadied the ship but he let himself and the fans down with his rant on the press and his constant rants on the touchline which resulted in touchline ban after ban.

    Ashley must be close to selling the club or he would have got Joe in by now.

    That in it’s slef gives me confidence were near the end.

  6. geordie deb says:
    July 4, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    “Sadly your analysis of his treatment and the mindset of a proportion of our fans is true.”

    The proportion who are driving us into the abyss at the moment. Mike Ashley really did make some stupid decisions, and non-decisions. However with hindsight and more than a little irony, many of the ones that made the crucial difference were the ones that the fans actually wanted.

  7. Worky, What decisions did the fans want?

    Off topic- Is anyone else having problems reading Telegraph articles on NUFC on their website?

  8. Stuart79 says:
    July 4, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    “Worky, What decisions did the fans want?”

    Main two…

    Ashley to sell, regardless of the position we were in at the time and the further instablity it caused in finding managers post Keegan.

    I would write appointing Keegan himself, but that’s a complex one and to be fair, he did come good for us eventually last season, and he has done so much for the club in the past. However, somehow I knew, even before Dennis the Menace was apointed that something bad was going to happen as soon as his name was announced, and I saw the scenes of jubilation and virtual hysteria on Tyneside. With Keegan’s fragile temperament, it was a “perfect storm” in the making.

  9. geordie deb says:
    July 4, 2009 at 9:11 pm (Edit)

    Worky I don’t believe we would have been relegated if Joe hadn’t of needed CABG surgery at that point in the season.

    ———

    I think you’re right. I’m not sure how far forward JK could have taken the team but I think he would have prevented relegation.

  10. Worky,

    I think you mistake the noisy minority being mistaken for the majority.

    I would think if you asked the supporters who they wanted to be manager when Alladyce left only the minority would have said KK. I and many of my friends didn’t even give KK a second thought.

    As for Ashley selling, I think that was the right decision.

    I heard Dave Whelan say that if Ashley had a realistic price at the time he knew people who would have bought the club. I also heard Anil Buyron from Arabian Bussinss.com say he knew of several people who wanted to buy the club but not at the price he wanted.

    His greed has cost him and us big time.

    Only my opinion of course.

  11. I think there are a lot of different ‘factions’ in the fans at the moment and there has been for some time. It’s often the case when a club’s not doing well. The fans are much more united when their team’s winning of course.

  12. Stuart79 says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:06 pm

    “Worky,

    I think you mistake the noisy minority being mistaken for the majority.”

    Perhaps I was a little unclear generalising in my first comment. Noisy minority or noisy majority, I meant the ones who were driving the agenda which was only making things worse. However, do you really think that only a minority have wanted him to sell the club, Stuart? ;-)

  13. Hugh de Payen says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:14 pm

    I think that only the younger fans wanted KK back. They had not been around the first time and thought it would be the same again(it might have been if Ashley had backed him with money).

    Majority of fans wanted a more steady and proven manager.

    Now is different with regards to Shearer. I feel he must have the job as anyone who gets it will have his shadow hanging over them. We need to know if he can do or not.

  14. workyticket says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    Only the minority wanted KK.

    Without a doubt the majority wanted him to sell. I was one of them. He could of too if he had been more realistic in what he wanted.

  15. Stuart 79

    As for Ashley selling, I think that was the right decision.

    ‘I heard Dave Whelan say that if Ashley had a realistic price at the time he knew people who would have bought the club. I also heard Anil Buyron from Arabian Bussinss.com say he knew of several people who wanted to buy the club but not at the price he wanted.

    His greed has cost him and us big time.’

    I’m not convinced that he was serious about selling the club earlier in the year. I think he half heartedly went through the motions to try to appease the fans as they were demanding that he sell and get out of town. However why would he put such a high price tag on the club when he knew potential buyers weren’t interested at that price. If he desperately wanted to sell he would have lowered the price. He was either very greed as you mentioned or he wasn’t really trying and overpriced the club knowing he wouldn’t get a buyer because he was trying to weather the storm. Thats my take on it anyway

  16. geordie deb says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    You took the words write out of my fingers! lol

    I don’t believe he wanted to sell either. In his eyes he couldn’t lose. He puts a big price tag on the club and if someone pays that price he’s quids in and if they don’t he stays.

    He couldn’t lose!

  17. 52times says:
    July 4, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    “I didn’t write that in an attempt to wind you up, worky. I was quite serious.”

    Maybe you were, 52. But I prefer not to measure my “Geordieness” by the strength of my hatred for people from outside the region. Things started to take a turn for the worse after John Hall’s “Geordie Nation” rhetoric in the nineties, and the disappointment when things didn’t go according to plan.

  18. Stuart79 says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    “He could of too if he had been more realistic in what he wanted.”

    How much did he want, Stuart?

  19. I’ve always been in a strange position regarding the goings-on at our club over the last few seasons.

    When Ashley took over I didn’t really have much of an opinion as I knew nothing about him.

    I wanted consistency more than anything, although I understood him sacking Allardyce and wanting his own man in.

    When he brought Keegan in I was nervous. The first time KK was there was great fun and we did well but I was cautious because a/ I knew it wouldn’t be the same as the first time because the PL has changed a lot since then and b/ I knew KK was a man who lived on his emotions and could walk at any time.

    However, after a shaky start things started to improve. We looked good and dragged ourselves from relegation to mid-table and things looked promising for the next season. I started to get more enthusiastic about the second Keegan era.

    Then KK walked or was sacked or whatever went on. We still don’t really know what went on but if Wise was undermining his decisions or his previously agreed responsibilities were being reneged then I would have been on his side. Alternatively, if he was demanding ludicrous money that we simply didn’t have for players then I would have backed Ashley.

    The Keegan incident itself didn’t put me off Ashley – as I said, we don’t know what really happened – but Ashley’s reaction to it did. The lack of communication then the childish statement from him, the lack of bottle to face the fans, the farce around selling the club etc. All that nonsense just made me think he didn’t have a clue what he was doing and that his heart wasn’t in it.

    Even after that though I would have given him a 2nd chance after he reasserted his intent to take us forward, but then he put us on the market again and I felt annoyed that I’d been prepared to give him a 2nd chance. Now I’ll be glad to see the back of him.

  20. workyticket says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:32 pm
    Stuart79 says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    “He could of too if he had been more realistic in what he wanted.”

    How much did he want, Stuart?

    Well we don’t know!

    I only know what Whelan and Buyrol said.

    They knew buyers who wanted it but not at the price he was quoting.

    I can understand Whelan making trouble for Ashley but not the edito of Arabian Business.com. He is well informed and broke the news of the City takeover and Pompey.

    He was on TalkSport last year saying he has spoken to peopl in the region who want it but not paying that much for a mid table club!

  21. Hugh de Payen says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Even after all his cock ups Ashley still didn’t have a clue what to do.

    He had to drag Bob Moncur and Beardsley into the boardroom after JFK was ill to ask them what to do! They both said get Shearer in. It still took them a couple of weeks to do that!

  22. Hugh

    ‘I think there are a lot of different ‘factions’ in the fans at the moment and there has been for some time. It’s often the case when a club’s not doing well. The fans are much more united when their team’s winning of course.’

    Unfortunately I think those factions have existed and grown stronger over the past 10 years or so. We were never a club who constantly undermined players confidence the way it happens now. For some fans to believe they have a ‘right’ to boo the team off if the performance isn’t to their liking, to audibly groan so players can hear it when certain players are announced or come on as subs, to walk out at the end of the season and not wait for the lap of honour just before SBR was sacked, to demand who is appointed manager etc etc etc

  23. workyticket says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:45 pm
    Stuart79 says:
    July 4, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    “Well we don’t know!”

    He wanted £250 million, Stuart.

    How you know that Worky?

    Keith Harris is quoted as saying he bever discussed a price with Ashley.

    Even that was too much considering Man City went for £180m, Aston Villa were sold for £62m and Ashley was saying the club had virtually doubled in price 16 months.

    Potential buyers knew the going rate for a prem club and £250m for a club who really was a mid table club was too much!

  24. Couldn’t even get annoyed about that article deb. He just comes across as trying too hard I think.

  25. 52times

    Yes he just tries to be provocative. I read his column each week in the Sunday Times and he’s always the same. Can be quite humorous though. Some of our fans will fail to spot it’s being done as a wind up and it will cause the usual southern media outrage

  26. what a sad bitter man he must be, won’t even give him the satisfaction of responding the sad twat.
    Frankly why do people like that even get jobs in anything wow he can mouth off and have a pop at an easy target so impressive. And he can do it while reaching for the typical media bag of cliches so to save himself the bother of actual research

  27. Ah, Rod Liddle – the man who got a police caution for assaulting his pregnant girlfriend (no libel there – that’s well-known fact) – another of The Times’ Newcastle haters.

    Granted he does it as a more obvious wind-up and with slightly less vitriol than the Ping Pong Pillock, but it still serves to promote a stereotype. You have to remember there are a lot of stupid people who take what the press write as fact.

  28. Ashley to sell, regardless of the position we were in at the time and the further instablity it caused in finding managers post Keegan

    Ah, Rod Liddle – the man who got a police caution for assaulting his pregnant girlfriend (no libel there – that’s well-known fact) – another of The Times’ Newcastle haters.

    HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ?

  29. beyethegreat says:
    July 5, 2009 at 11:08 am (Edit)

    Ah, Rod Liddle – the man who got a police caution for assaulting his pregnant girlfriend (no libel there – that’s well-known fact) – another of The Times’ Newcastle haters.

    HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ?

    ===============

    It was in all the papers Beye and he admitted the police caution and why he got it. He denied the actual charge though and said he only accepted the caution for purposes of expediency.

  30. Rod Liddle’s a horrible little right wing hypocrite, and I usually disagree with virtually everything he says. However attacking the man and not the point he is making is wrong. He is right about Newcastle, and the sooner the fans realise it, the better it will be for the club.

    Football fans really ARE almost always wrong about team selections, managers, suitable owners and so on. That’s why we’re in the stands and not in the dugout or the boardroom. Fans of other teams seem to get this, but we just don’t for some reason, and it’s killing us.

  31. WORKY

    I AGREE BUT I WISH PEOPLE WOULD GET IT RIGHT WE ARE NOT DELUDED WE ARE DEMANDING HE CLAIMS THAT MOST FANS B ELIEVE WE WILL STORM THE CHAMPIONSHIP-IS THAT TRUE? NO

    AND I DONT CARE WHAT ANY 1 SAYS WE ARE A BIG CLUB IN EVERY POSSABLE WAY

    WORKY I ALSO FEEL WE ARE UNFAIRLY HIGHLIGHTED FOR EXAMPLE PEOPLE LIKE O’NIELL AND BROWN WHO HAVE TAKEN THEIR CLUB TO HIGHS THEY HAVE EITHER NEVER SEEN OR NEVER SEEN FOR A LONG TIME WERE JEERED LAST SEASON BUT IF WE DONE SOMETHING LIKE THAT WE’D NEVER LIVE IT DOWN

  32. workyticket says:
    July 5, 2009 at 12:20 pm (Edit)

    Rod Liddle’s a horrible little right wing hypocrite, and I usually disagree with virtually everything he says. However attacking the man and not the point he is making is wrong. He is right about Newcastle, and the sooner the fans realise it, the better it will be for the club.

    Football fans really ARE almost always wrong about team selections, managers, suitable owners and so on. That’s why we’re in the stands and not in the dugout or the boardroom. Fans of other teams seem to get this, but we just don’t for some reason, and it’s killing us.

    =========

    Workey, I agree, and where comment in the press is reasoned I’ll always give it fair consideration whether I agree with it or not.

    However Liddle’s stuff (like the Pillock’s stuff) is provocative nonsense that simply regurgitates the Toon supporter stereotype in order to create a sensationalist article. It’s perfectly possible for him to write an amusing article that doesn’t generalise about ‘deluded fans’ but he chooses simply to travel the same old road again and it’s getting ever so tiresome.

    There is truth in some of the stuff he writes but the truth is packaged inside a turd and most people won’t bother hunting in turds on the off chance that they’ll find a gem within.

  33. HUGH

    I DONT REALY KNOW MUCH ABOUT HIM WORKY SAYS HE IS RIGHT WING IF SO HAVE YOU GOT ANY ARTICLES TO PROVE IT ? IF HE REALY IS RIGHT WING THAT WOULD PROVE HOW MUCH THE ARTICLE HE WROTE ID WORHT WHICH WOULD BE NOTHING

  34. Beye, I think that we are certainly are a big club off the pitch, I have met Newcastle United fans from all over the world. However, we certainly aren’t a big club on it anymore and the last time we won a proper trophy, it was filmed in black and white and our opponents were that mighty european powerhouse, Ujpest Doza.

    As for most fans thinking we will storm the Championship, that’s a difficult one. Some are, but not “most” and I’ll agree that many fans are full of doom and gloom at present and one or two of the gloomier souls are actually talking about relegation from the Championship! We’re all over the place on that one. However, I think that when new owners come in, that will change and we’ll be talking about Europe before we’re even promoted (ok, I may be exaggerating a little there).

    But on the other point, Beye, what do you think will happen if new owners come in, then announce that Alan Shearer will NOT be our next manager?

  35. Too many people seemingly falling for the same trap as rivals fans and media alike in believing that the goons outside St. James’ Park gurning merrily for Sky Sports News are somehow representative of the average NUFC fan; to these folk, i’d suggest either changing the friends you hang around with or try different pre and post-match bars. Daftness, people.

    As for Joe Kinnear, he couldn’t believe his luck at being appointed NUFC Manager, and the former failed Forest Boss deserves no credit whatsoever for accepting a job offering 50 grand per game. People who try to pass off his frankly ludicrous tenure as anything other than a disaster (swearing at Journalists thus incurring the wrath of Sir Bobby, lying through his teeth at every available opportunity, having misplaced faith in the Fenham Eusebio, wretched, wretched football, 4 wins in 20 matches including two wins over hapless West Brom and an unforgiveably gutless defeat and display at Sunderland) are deluding themselves.

    People unhappy with Joe Kinnear’s stint aren’t anti-Cockney, they just happen to have working eyes and ears. Oh, and for anyone who points to his record at Wimbledon (where he done the same as Harry Bassett and Bobby Gould lest we forget), are they the same people who bemoaned the fact Keegan had been out of football for some time? On that basis, why not bring back Frank Clark, Alan Ball (tricky, mind), Howard Wilkinson or John Gorman?

    Yes we can’t attract Managers these days of the calibre of Louis Van Gaal, but we can and should surely expect more than a failed old has-been with health problems and a pre-dereliction for telling porkies.

  36. WORKY

    workyticket says:
    July 5, 2009 at 1:18 pm
    Beye, I think that we are certainly are a big club off the pitch, I have met Newcastle United fans from all over the world. However, we certainly aren’t a big club on it anymore and the last time we won a proper trophy, it was filmed in black and white and our opponents were that mighty european powerhouse, Ujpest Doza

    yeah but werent the hungarians meant to be good back then ? also about the last time we won a trophy i see that as irrelevent as we are the 7th most succesful club in england people always say the likes of citeh and west ham are good but i wasnt alive to see iether of them win a trophy there seems to be a thin amongst english football fans which goes if you werent good in the mid to late 70s and late 80s youre not a big club which id bollox

    But on the other point, Beye, what do you think will happen if new owners come in, then announce that Alan Shearer will not be our next manager?

    well 1st it depends on the new owners will they be willing to pay what ever it takes ?

    and about shearer he wouldnt be my 1st choice but if he was appointed i would accept it personally i would like to see curbs especially if the owners are willing to pay what it takes as with an unlimited fund in the championship he would p!ss through te chamionship

  37. there seems to be a thin amongst english football fans which goes if you werent good in the mid to late 70s and late 80s youre not a big club which id bollox

    there seems to be a thing amongst english football fans which goes if you werent good in the mid to late 70s and in the 80s youre not a big club which is bollox

    *

  38. beyethegreat says:
    July 5, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    “yeah but werent the hungarians meant to be good back then ? also about the last time we won a trophy i see that as irrelevent as we are the 7th most succesful club in england…”

    Beye, the “Magical Magyars” of the fifties were one of the greatest sides in football history, and Ferenc Puskas was one of the greatest players ever, but he famously played for Real Madrid in what is arguably the greatest club side ever. Ujpest Dosza did have their moments in the late sixties and early seventies, they made the semi final of the European Cup and Cup Winner’s Cup, and of course the final of the Fairs Cup. I was being a little flippant there, they weren’t bad at all back then, but they weren’t a huge European team.

    As I wrote, we ARE still a big team off the pitch, but our record as the seventh most successful English team was also built way back in the Edwardian era, the ‘twenties with Gallacher (until we stupidly sold him to Chelsea), and the fifties with the likes of Robledo, Harvey and Milburn.

  39. As I wrote, we ARE still a big team off the pitch, but our record as the seventh most successful English team was also built way back in the Edwardian era, the ‘twenties with Gallacher (until we stupidly sold him to Chelsea), and the fifties with the likes of Robledo, Harvey and Milburn

    it doesnt matter when we were a good side for example every 1 knows nottingham forrest as a big club right ?but the last time they won anything was in eightees

    though personally i dont rate being a big club on what you have won imo a big club is a big fan base any club can win something the likes of forrest west auckland and today villareal are proof of that any 1 can win anthing

  40. How do you judge a ‘big club’ on the pitch though? Trophies aren’t necessarily a good measure; if a team is in the top 4 of the PL for many successive seasons I’d say they’re a big club on the pitch, although they may never have lifted a trophy in that time. Yet a mid-lower PL team who lifts the FA Cup once in a while wouldn’t necessarily be a ‘big club’ IMHO.

  41. I don’t get why some folk are concerned as to whether or not we are considered a ‘big’ club or not. What consitutes one anyway – fanbase, history, trophies won or a combination of all? Did the fact Manchester United went through a relatively fallow period in the 70’s and 80’s meant that they were not considered a big club? Of course not. Similarly, no-one would seriously consider Wimbledon, Oxford United and Luton Town big clubs in spite of their trophy wins in the 80’s.

    I’d rather NUFC were run sensibly and outside the media glare for a while, and let them concentrate their attentions on others for a change.

    Good blog by the way, doff capped in the general direction of those responsible.

  42. beyethegreat says:
    July 5, 2009 at 1:58 pm

    “any club can win something the likes of forrest west auckland and today villareal are proof of that any 1 can win anthing”

    We certainly can’t at the moment, Beye!

    You and Bowburn definitely seem to have a thing about West Auckland :-)

  43. ShiverMeTimbre says:
    July 5, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    “I don’t get why some folk are concerned as to whether or not we are considered a ‘big’ club or not. What consitutes one anyway – fanbase, history, trophies won or a combination of all?”

    I think that people would answer that in different ways but I think it a combination of all those things and winning major trophies in several different periods. The likes of Wimbledon and Luton certainly haven’t done that. I also think that it’s a pointless argument at the moment anyway. Leeds are a big club too, with a major provincial city all to themselves, but it certainly isn’t helping them in the lower leagues.

    Thanks from myself and all the other contributors about the ‘blog BTW, Shiver. Much appreciated!

  44. “any club can win something the likes of forrest west auckland and today villareal are proof of that any 1 can win anthing”

    We certainly can’t at the moment, Beye!

    You and Bowburn definitely seem to have a thing about West Auckland

    unfortunately youre right but we could given the right people at the club

    and about west auckland its just an amazing story arguably the most amazing in football and the fact that its 1 of my local teams means that little more

  45. Hi Worky, good match but still in the first set. Will have to get my strawberries and cream ready LOL.

    Yes Ive been following the banter. Very interesting to hear everyone’s perspective. It’s an intriguing topic and one worthy of an article for further debate.

  46. beyethegreat says:
    July 5, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    “west auckland its just an amazing story arguably the most amazing in football”

    Oh yeah! that! I seem to recall you and Bowburn moaning about them the other day though?

    What about Hoffenheim in the first division of the Bundeliga too, Beye? I think they even topped it at one stage! The population of Hoffenheim is around 3000.

  47. geordie deb says:
    July 5, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    “It’s an intriguing topic and one worthy of an article for further debate.”

    Hit the keyboard then, Deb! ;-)

  48. The population of Hoffenheim is around 3000

    realy ?

    well storys like that is what makes football great

    you dont get that cricket rugby nfl basketball baseball hockey f1 tennis golf though in boxing there was some 1 who apparently sly stallone based rocky on

  49. “What makes a Geordie, a Geordie?”

    “Passion for futbarl and appreciation of fine foods etc etc…”

    Still can’t find the advert. :?

    Just got back from my ‘boys trip’ to Masham. Full of produce from the local butchers and Black Sheep Ale. Wasn’t the most pleasant journey back in terms of aroma and I need an afternoon kip.

    Looking for Roddick to beat The Fed but can’t see it. He’s just too damn good.

    Ta muchly Shiver – you talk a lot of sense. The blog is better for posters like yourself. Fortunately, the last few articles have interrupted my previous article run which can only be a good thing. Hugh, worky and deb have obviously decided to pull their fingers out! ;)

    To finish on topic – Joe, thanks but no thanks.

  50. Beye,

    Regarding Hoffenheim, one of their ex-youth players, Dietmar Hopp made it big in the world of computing, so he came back and pumped quite a bit of money into it.

    ps He was the co-founder of the software giant “SAP”, apparently. They’re a very big company.

  51. BBM

    Definetley doesn’t sound like a good combination to travel on!
    Well Roddick has his nose out in front at the minute, but Federer’s a bit like Man U more than capable of pulling a gem out of the bag when you think they’re down and out. Good to see so many ex champs today – Sampras there to see if his record is going to be beaten.

  52. workyticket says:
    July 5, 2009 at 3:06 pm
    Beye,

    Regarding Hoffenheim, one of their ex-youth players, Dietmar Hopp made it big in the world of computing, so he came back and pumped quite a bit of money into it.

    ps He was the co-founder of the software giant “SAP”, apparently. They’re a very big company.

    wouldnt that be great if some 1 pumped a load of money in to us

  53. Worky

    ‘It’s an intriguing topic and one worthy of an article for further debate.”

    Hit the keyboard then, Deb!’

    I was thinking you could have continued the debate with an article…..

  54. geordie deb says:
    July 5, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    “I was thinking you could have continued the debate with an article…..”

    I wish I could, Deb! I was going to work on some other stuff for this site, ‘phone my friend about sorting out his website, and I’m not feeling very well today, either.

  55. Will let you off then!
    I haven’t got time to do one today, have work stuff to get ready for next few days but I will plan to do something, unless anyone else is volunteering??

  56. worky – West Auckland’s floodlights failed with 10 minutes remaining when we were winning 2-1 in the cup last season.

    :roll:

    We ended up replaying on the Saturday before the Great North Run. We got beat 1-0 and I ended up hitting the wall after 8 miles of the GNR as a result of the 90 mins from the previous day. I blame them entirely!

    Otherwise I have nowt against them :)

    What’s this article we want to write? The ‘big club’ thing?

  57. bowburnmag says:
    July 5, 2009 at 3:53 pm

    “West Auckland’s floodlights failed”

    Ah! that old trick ;-)

    As for the other thing, mine would be a psychoanalysis of Newcastle United fans, Bowburn. I think that something has gone horribly wrong with our collective psyche, and the rest is symptoms rather than causes. I would probably get an online lynching by the militant “Al-Shera” faction if I wrote one though.

  58. As for the other thing, mine would be a psychoanalysis of Newcastle United fans, Bowburn. I think that something has gone horribly wrong with our collective psyche

    like what

  59. beyethegreat

    ‘take over will take 4 more weeks’

    That could be until the final knockings when everything is done and dusted, but someone mentioned if the prefered bidder signs an intent to buy they can progress with various actions as f the club has been sold. If that is correct I guess it depends what they class as ‘sold’.

  60. beyethegreat says:
    July 5, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    “like what”

    Well it’s a huge issue that I could write a book about. However, in the simplest possible terms, we want to intefere constantly with the running of the club, and it is having a really bad effect on us. This is a natural instinct of nearly all supporters, it’s “Fantasy Football”, it’s “Football Manager 2009”. But we’ve got too carried away with it, we don’t know where to stop. Our frustration has also created a kind of negative psychological forcefield around ourselves which snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

    My thesis is that it goes beyond owners, managers and players. It even influences who owns, manages and plays for us.

  61. So what does that make the (rather sizeable section,too) Manchester United fans who unfurled ‘Fergie Out’ banners and demanded he be sacked just prior to the vital F.A. cup win against Forest in 1990? Or the Everton fans giving Moyes stick the season after they finished 4th in the League? All football fans are fickle, Newcastle fans are no better or worse than any others in that respect.

    The real difference being, as it has been since the 60’s when internal squabbling led to losing out on hosting the 1966 World Cup finals, is terrible running of this football club. Whenever we’ve had a decent Manager (or a forward thinking Chairman in SJH) in place a la Keegan or Robson, we’ve done well.

  62. worky im not saying it isnt a problem but it isnt a problem but there are many more things that are wrong withthe club i dont see the fans interfeering as a problem but when the fans interfere for example jeering sir bobby singing you dont know what youre doing to fat sam

    though worky now you have youre own blog you can persuade people to think differently even if only 50 read this blog and start chanting instead of groaning at every mis placed pass that could make a difference as they may persuade others around

    i beleive the nusc should encourage more chanting during matches and as they are a bigger group perhaps take over from the struggling ultras

  63. Before I begin debate on football, is anybody else witnessing a monsoon? I’ve never seen owt like it in my entire life in the UK.

    beye, must be similar up your way?

    Honestly, it’s bizarre. Mumbai eat your heart out.

  64. bowburnmag says:
    July 5, 2009 at 5:29 pm
    Before I begin debate on football, is anybody else witnessing a monsoon? I’ve never seen owt like it in my entire life in the UK.

    beye, must be similar up your way?

    Honestly, it’s bizarre. Mumbai eat your heart out.

    actually the weather is realy calm i was actually outside reading the paper a few mins ago ?

  65. Glued to the tennis – great match – but looking wistfully out at the sun – sorry BBM

  66. To be honest, I’m not sure we’re too different to other sets of fans. It might seem it because a/ it’s our club and we’ll obviously be more sensitive to things happening to it, and b/ we’ve had a rough time both on and off the pitch for many years now (since SBR at least) and that polarizes these sorts of things.

    I am sure that had we been turning in good results for the last few years, regularly getting into Europe, maybe picking up the occasional FA Cup etc. the ‘psyche’ of the fans would be quite different.

    I think there may be one other contributory factor specific to our club and that’s the feeling that we’ve underachieved after the promise of the first Keegan era. That gave us a glimpse of what was possible and I think a lot of expectations are set with that era still in mind.

  67. I agree with Hugh and SMT in the main.
    Between them, those views are fairly spot on in my opinion.

  68. ShiverMeTimbre says:
    July 5, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    “So what does that make the (rather sizeable section,too) Manchester United fans who unfurled ‘Fergie Out’ banners and demanded he be sacked just prior to the vital F.A. cup win against Forest in 1990? Or the Everton fans giving Moyes stick the season after they finished 4th in the League? All football fans are fickle, Newcastle fans are no better or worse than any others in that respect.”

    It was one banner Shiver, “Three years of excuses: Ta-ra Fergie” after, you guessed it, three years.

    There wasn’t a several month campaign of vilification against the owners.

    They didn’t demand that the owner sell, then tell him that his price was too high when they didn’t even know what it was.

    They didn’t demand that the director of football and his assistants be fired either when they didn’t have a clue what was going on. All this five minutes after Keegan, a manager who has won no major trophies whatsoever, left the club.

    Remember all the fuss at West Ham when East London born manager, and ex West Ham player, Alan Curbishley left the club using exactly the same reasons as Keegan? Remember how easy it was for them to get another manager in? We absolutely terrified them all, and we got our wish to make Ashley put the club on the market too, so it was left to Chris Hughton, then Joe Kinnear, then Chris Hughton (again) to step into the breach. No matter how many top players we have in the team, five managerial changes in one season can always lead to catastrophe, and it did in our case.

    As for Everton, that was absolutely nothing in comparison. As I wrote, they know when to stop. We don’t.

    Hugh de Payen says:
    July 5, 2009 at 6:43 pm

    “I think there may be one other contributory factor specific to our club and that’s the feeling that we’ve underachieved after the promise of the first Keegan era. That gave us a glimpse of what was possible and I think a lot of expectations are set with that era still in mind.”

    That’s big part of it, Hugh. We’re “stuck on the Billy Mill roundabout”.

  69. When you say they Worky, I take it you’re including yourself as part of the problem, and again would suggest you’re hanging around in the wrong circles or bars if you really think the majority of Newcastle fans are uniquely troublesome.

    And it wasn’t just one banner for Whiskeynose, there was a concerted campaign to get shot of him (try checking back old fanzines from the era), it was only the stength of the board refusing to bow to pressure, same things with Kenwright/Moyes.

    Obviously there’s a section of NUFC support made up of soccer-am, sky-tastic types, but again all clubs have such fans. We’re no different to any other set of supporters, and the sooner people realise this the better.

    You mention Keegan’s lack of trophies in the sort of manner a Rod Liddle or Syed would, conveniently forgetting the monumental impact of his time here as both a player and Manager – 2nd bottom of the 2nd Division to within a game of winning the league in four years. Put it simply, without Keegan (and SJH), there would be no NUFC today.

    You seem quite happy to knock Keegan, defend the hapless Kinnear, the current regime and denigrate NUFC fans – remind me who you support again?

  70. SMT – I agree with about 99% of what you’ve written.
    In fact, I’m trying to put an article together but it’s a bit of a hotchpotch at the minute.

    Mind you, worky isn’t as far-removed from your views as you might think, in my opinion at least.

    Trying to be introspective when it comes to diagnosing the town’s problems is sometimes a hard thing to do though. It’s quite easy to become critical of our own once you go down that road and I think the fans are the least of the problem personally. The media just magnifies the moron element.

  71. ShiverMeTimbre says:
    July 5, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    “conveniently forgetting the monumental impact of his time here as both a player and Manager – 2nd bottom of the 2nd Division to within a game of winning the league in four years. Put it simply, without Keegan (and SJH), there would be no NUFC today.”

    I’ve never forgotten that Shiver. Keegan was great for the club in those days. But are you really saying that this club wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for Sir John Hall and Kevin Keegan?

  72. bowburnmag says:
    July 5, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    “The media just magnifies the moron element.”

    Bowburn, was it just the “moron element” who were calling for Ashley to sell over Keegan?

  73. Pretty much Worky, unless you’re forgetting the absolute mess that the club were in under the McKeag regime; relegation to the third tier of football would have put this club in serious jeopardy, something which was acknowledged at the time by John Hall, Keegan, Fletcher, McDermott etc.

    We were in a worse state then than when Ashley took over, which is no mean feat considering fat Fred’s ridiculous decision-making and leaving the club heavily in debt.

  74. One thing that does annoy me though is when it’s mentioned that any prospective NUFC Manager has to understand the area or have some connection to the North-East.

    Well, last time I checked I can’t recall Wenger’s stint as an Arsenal player, or Ferguson’s affinity with all things Mancunian; struggling to remeber that Mourinho character ever being spotted in the Shed End either.

    Ridiculous, insular notion that needs to be knocked on the head, and sharpish.

  75. worky – it’s hard to argue that point without going over old ground really.

    To sum up –

    a) I trusted KK over Ashley et al any day of the week
    b) Ashley et told us nothing

    a) + b) = An inevitable conlusion to either come out fighting with justification, reasons and plans to go forward or just get the hell out of dodge.

    Personally, I’d always have gone for the former even if it was a bitter pill to swallow given KK’s relationship with us.

    However, at no point has Ashley demonstrated the leadership, tenacity and gumption to deal with a football club or complex business situations and issues. How he got where he did is anybody’s guess really.

    I don’t hate him, I just think he’s not up to the job and never was.

  76. ShiverMeTimbre says:
    July 5, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    “And it wasn’t just one banner for Whiskeynose, there was a concerted campaign to get shot of him (try checking back old fanzines from the era), it was only the stength of the board refusing to bow to pressure, same things with Kenwright/Moyes.”

    Yes, there is some truth in that, Shiver. There was only one banner but there were considerable rumblings of discontent. Everton were right not to bow to pressure too. However I still think that our situation is more extreme.

  77. SMT – The only thing prospective owners have to understand is football and football fans. No more, no less.

  78. “Yes, there is some truth in that, Shiver. There was only one banner but there were considerable rumblings of discontent. Everton were right not to bow to pressure too. However I still think that our situation is more extreme.”

    worky – if Ashley had had the balls to have a go back and say “right, I couldn’t give a fcuk what you think, this is how it will be”, people might have respected him and taken notice. We might not be in this mess.

    The fact he didn’t, suggests to me that he realised fairly quickly he was in above his head and didn’t what to do. Or that he didn’t have the stomach for a fight. Either way, that’s not who I want in charge of my beloved football club.

  79. “didn’t know what to do”.

    Anyway, I’m off to keep the peace and watch the telly with the missus. Catch up later chaps.

  80. ShiverMeTimbre says:
    July 5, 2009 at 8:58 pm

    “One thing that does annoy me though is when it’s mentioned that any prospective NUFC Manager has to understand the area or have some connection to the North-East.”

    I agree with you completely about that too, Shiver, but alot of fans are saying that, it isn’t just the media.

  81. I have to agree there. There is no reason why a manager should come from a club’s home area or have any previous affiliation with the club he manages. He just has to know how to manage a football club (and part and parcel of that is, I think, understanding how to keep the fans onside, yet also knowing when to ignore them).

  82. “One thing that does annoy me though is when it’s mentioned that any prospective NUFC Manager has to understand the area or have some connection to the North-East.”

    I agree with you completely about that too, Shiver, but alot of fans are saying that, it isn’t just the media.

    yeah i agree but its understandable can any 1 think of a manager who has done well with us that didnt have some sort of connection with us either being from the NE or being a fan or even former player

    WHAT WE NEED IS SOME 1 TO BREAK THE MOULD AND ONE DAY IT WILL HAPPEN

    IF I HAD MY WAY CURBS WOULD BE THE MAN TO HAVE A GO

  83. I think what matters as much as anything right now for the Toon is consistency. We need a settled owner and we need to back a manager for the long-term.

    All this uncertainty at the owner level and chopping and changing managers has done as much damage as anything else.

  84. beyethegreat says:
    July 5, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    “yeah i agree but its understandable can any 1 think of a manager who has done well with us that didnt have some sort of connection with us either being from the NE or being a fan or even former player”

    Kenny Dalglish, a Scotsman with no previous connection to the club, came second in the league, made a cup final, beat Barcelona 3-2 and signed Solano, Speed and Given in less than two years at the helm. How’s that by today’s standards, Beye?

  85. hey guys, hope you are all well!!
    not one to spread rumours but a friend just told me she was having a meal in hotel du vin on the quay side and sol campbell was there with his lass.
    Hey Newcastle is a nice place, might have been shopping!! just thought i would let you all know!

  86. His lass is from up here, so that would explain it. There’s nobody at the club to sign or sell players at the minute so I don’t think there’s anything in it.

  87. Aye aye Girth, good to hear from you.

    Rumour has it he’s bought a gaff with the missus who’s a Geordie.
    Has to be for a valid reason, unless he’s retiring up here?

  88. worky i quite liked daglish didnt he get the sack after we drew with 10 man charlton 2nd game of the season m8

  89. batty says:
    July 5, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    “worky i quite liked daglish didnt he get the sack after we drew with 10 man charlton 2nd game of the season m8”

    Aye, a draw with Chelsea in the game before as well. Disgraceful!

    It was a little peturbed to see the once great Rushie and Barnesie waddling out with their spare tyres like fat labradors, and his son (who was certainly no Kenny) leading the attack. It looked like a nepotistic “family and friends” thing. But what would we give to see us beating Barcelona and striding out for an FA cup final now? And of course, Nobby, Speed and Given have all been absolutely huge for this club in recent years, and that was thanks to Kenny. We hardly even spare him a thought now compared with the other Liverpool legend who we took quite a shine to. Many of us even think of him as a “failure”.

  90. Aye worky, arguably it was really KK’s team that finished 2nd but KD did well to turn things round after a poor start. Great cup runs and some undeniably good signings followed.

    BUT the same fella brought in Pistone, Tomasson, Andersson and Guivarc’h. And we finished mid-table and never looked like winning the cups. In truth, we had some decent draws in the cups.

    I wasn’t a fan of his tenure overall, though I like the bloke

  91. Daglish – much more than Allardyce, Gullit, Souness, Roeder – is the one NUFC Manager I feel deserved more time. People forget that Beardsley was on the wane and Asprilla, for all his brilliance, never performed consistently in the league.

    Got the team on a good run to finish 2nd in 96/97; second season he was darn unlucky when Shearer was ruled out in a pre-season friendly around the same time as the club were selling Sir Les. Yes, acquiring the likes of Serrant, Rush and Barnes were perplexing, but as has been mentioned he also brought in Speed, Given and Solano.

    Oh, and he always has a good word to say about Newcastle United, unluck the feckless self-publicists such as Allardyce and Souness,

  92. The trouble with managers such as Dalglish, Souness, Roeder and Allardyce is that they weren’t given a long enough spell to know if they’d have been any good.

    Only Keegan and Robson have been given time and they’re the ones that have got our best PL finishes between them. One could argue that they were better managers anyway, but I’m sure the time they were given is also a factor in their success.

    As to Dalglish, it’s hard to judge. He finished 2nd on the back of Keegan’s team but only managed 13th the next season. Then of course he was dumped, so we’ll never really know whether we were upwards bound or downwards bound from there.

    I think a manager needs an entire season – pre-season + 2 transfer windows + all games – just to get settled in and get things shaped the way they want them, during which it’s unfair to judge them at all and survival should be the only requirement.

    At the end of the next entire season we may be able to make some judgements about a manager: do things look like they’re going in the right direction? Even if the finish isn’t brilliant, can we see a long-term build-up in progress? That sort of thing.

    At the end of the 3rd full season I think we can probably expect a manager to be fully settled, have a lot of his own people in and we’re probably not being unreasonable in starting to expect improving results now (although even that has to be taken in the context of the finances of the club – it’s probably unreasonable to expect premier league titles on a small budget for example).

    While this building process is going on we can expect the occasional flirt with relegation danger (it happened to Moyes and O’Neill for example) but we can’t panic and make snap decision because of it. This is where a good owner/chairman comes in: they have to be absolutely convinced a manager can’t do the job before getting shot of him – otherwise they must back him and give him time.

  93. Kenny Dalglish, a Scotsman with no previous connection to the club, came second in the league, made a cup final, beat Barcelona 3-2 and signed Solano, Speed and Given in less than two years at the helm. How’s that by today’s standards, Beye?

    good pointbut didnt he finish 13th? also the football wasnt as good todays standards e is amazing but then people may have expected more

  94. Only Keegan and Robson have been given time and they’re the ones that have got our best PL finishes between them. One could argue that they were better managers anyway, but I’m sure the time they were given is also a factor in their success.

    Hugh,

    Dalglish won the league as a manager three times with Liverpool and once with Blackburn. He won the FA cup twice, five or six Charity shields etc. Keegan won no major trophies at all and cracked under pressure when he had his chance to win. So, no, you can’t really argue that Keegan was a better manager than Dalglish unless you see things through that weird, distorted view that only Newcastle United supporters seem to have.

  95. worky – I would imagine Hugh was referring to their time in the Newcastle hot-seat? Success is relative to us fans, is it not?

  96. bowburnmag says:
    July 6, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    “I would imagine Hugh was referring to their time in the Newcastle hot-seat?”

    But Dalglish was a runner up in the league with us, like Keegan, and was a runner up in the FA Cup too, which Keegan never managed. He also rebuilt the reserve side which Keegan stupidly destroyed. This was all in the space of 20 months and with Shearer suffering a major injury.

  97. Well, the point I was making was that we can’t really compare managers that haven’t been given the same length of time to prove themselves – I believe that’s *hugely* significant.

    And yes, when I was talking about a ‘good’ manager, I mean in terms of Newcastle management rather than management per se.

    I would argue that we cannot properly judge Dalglish’s success as Newcastle manager because he only had one complete season in charge (finished 13th). He only had half a season before that (finished 2nd) and 2 games the season after.

  98. IMO opinion Kenny Dalglish was the luckiest manager this country has ever seen.

    He inherited a unbelievable squad that had dominated England and Europe for nearly 15yrs.

    He went to Blackburn and had a complete open chequebook.

    Came to us and again inherited a great squad that he finished 2nd with and then disantled it and finished 13th!

    Very lucky indeed!

  99. worky – I’d probably say KK is forefront in Newcastle fan’s minds because of all the things SMT mentioned in his above post.

    It’s probably fair to say KD has been unjustly criticised but people reflect on how he came out of the Stevenage game etc. and they have their own issues and opinions.

    Personally, I like him and thought he could have been a big hit given more time.

  100. good news maybe? the chron has a direct quote from the silent man saying 2 bids of 100m have been recieved

  101. Good work Joseph.

    I’d write a brief article but I’m swamped!

    Is that light we see?

  102. 120 bowburnmag says:
    July 6, 2009 at 2:38 pm
    Good work Joseph.

    I’d write a brief article but I’m swamped!

    Is that light we see?

    If it is no doubt we’ll get a deluge of water coming through it to drown the optimism!

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