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Ashley is offered £100m to shove off.

Posted on September 19th, 2009 | 114 Comments |

Get out of this toon
Get out of this toon
According to a statement the club made to The Journal, Ashley’s £100m asking price has been met and ‘all parties are at the sale and purchase stage‘, which sounds a bit different to any parties I’ve been to.

The Journal then goes on to speculate that it could still be some time before the takeover situation is resolved and they quote ‘sources’ who say the club has just renegotiated a £25m overdraft with Barclays, reduced from last seasons £39m facility.

The Journal further speculates that Barry Moat is behind the £100m offer but that Barclays are not prepared to offer him the same £25m overdraft facility they’ll offer to Ashley.

‘Sources’ have apparently also confirmed that 2 overseas parties are also still interested in the club and have progressed beyond the due diligence phase, although they haven’t yet made formal offers.

So what can we make of this? I suspect our decent start to the season has encouraged Ashley to think about the possibilities of promotion. If he hangs onto the club and we do get promoted, he’ll probably be able to at least double his asking price. Although he’ll be taking a risk in doing that – we might not get promoted and the club may then be worth less than it is now and his potential buyers might have disappeared.

Ashley, having seen his personal fortune drop from £2b to £800m, will obviously want to get the best return he can for Newcastle United (who, after all, could  live on a mere £800m?) but then there’s this Serious Fraud Office stuff he has to contend with – he might feel that he can better concentrate on that if he gets shot of the club.

Ashley has to go. He doesn’t want the club and we’ll never be able to plan for the long-term while he’s there. The sooner he goes the better in my opinion, although within reason: I don’t want the club sold to someone who can’t afford to run it, although I’m not convinced how much of a risk there really is of that happening.

Time will tell I suppose.

NUFCBlog Author: Hugh de Payen I'm a baby-boomer of the punk rock persuasion, currently exiled in Somerset for crimes committed in a previous life where locals keep trying to poison me with something called 'scrumpy'. Hates sprouts, coat-hangers, Cilla Black, ornaments, Steven Seagull movies and 50 Cent (he's not worth 10). Hugh de Payen has written 634 articles on this blog.

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114 Responses

  1. Hugh, Hugh, Barney Mcgrew!

    Sterling work on the articles considering your condition. Not your age I mean. Your illness. ;)

    Geroota Dodge ya cowboy, this town ain’t big enough for the both of us!

    Nah, I’d just like to see something positive happen but false dawns and all that…

  2. Totally agree with the sentiments of this article – although an owner like Moat who at least appears have the welfare of the club at heart, would be preferable to the disinterested barrow boy, even if Moat didn’t quite have the funding to take us forward.
    You never know, once barrow boy is totally gone, Moat could find himself in a much better position to attract other interested backers ;)

  3. “Ashley is offered £100m to shove off”

    “Get out of this toon”

    This site is starting to get a really nasty, aggressive edge. I don’t think I like it anymore.

  4. Hugh,

    You’re spot on about Ashley. He will be thinking that this great start means we’ll go up, he won’t have to spend any money and he can get double the price.

    It’s typical of his short sightedness and his total and utter lack of understanding when it comes to football.

    It’s been said that Moats backers won’t reveal themselves or their vast wealth until Ashley has left.

    I wonder why?

    They probably think he’s a complete prick too.

  5. workyticket says:
    September 19, 2009 at 11:43 am (Edit)

    “Ashley is offered £100m to shove off”

    “Get out of this toon”

    This site is starting to get a really nasty, aggressive edge. I don’t think I like it anymore.

    ====

    Complain to the owner – I hear he’s an understanding guy.

  6. What about this for a conspiracy theory:

    We all know that Ashley cannot be trusted or relied upon to tell the truth or at the very least tell what is happening.

    Now Ashley may well know that there is absolutely no chance that the club will be sold. He’s dripping information out through the media just so the supporters think the sale is on going. That way the supporters still turn up and buy merchandise.

    If he said it’s off the market and I’m stayin I’m sure he would see a reduction in his turnover on match days, so he wn’t do that will he?

    He’s a wiley old fox and I wouldn’t put anything past this slimy little turd!

  7. Hugh de Payen says:
    September 19, 2009 at 11:52 am

    “Complain to the owner – I hear he’s an understanding guy.”

    Stardust was right about this site months ago, Hugh. I should have listened to him more.

  8. Que another round of the same old verbal abuse we’ve heard a gazillion times already. What a bore.
    I’m sure that’s what’ll tip the scales & get Ashley oot.
    Yawn.
    I’m not for nor against the article, just the typical, lame-brain responses.

  9. “Stuart79 says: September 19, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    What about this for a conspiracy theory:”

    I’ll go you one better, Stuart. Moat and Ashley are in league with each other. Moats bid is Ashley’s idea to stall the process…he can advance or collapse it any time he likes. As you say, the fans remain hoodwinked into “Thinking” it’s being sold when all Ashley’s doing is keeping his powder dry for a bigger offer.

    The litany of lies that this club is now steeped in drowns out what little truth that may be out there. We’ve heard this “£100m on the table” nonsense before from Llambias 3 months ago…it was rubbish then, it’s rubbish now!

  10. Hugh de Payen says:
    September 19, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    “I’ve no idea what he said Worky.”

    At the risk of misquoting him slightly, he said that he was taking a back seat, because he could feel the early signs of ‘mob rule’ encroaching on the site. Well, very roughly, anyway.

    I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m a bit wrong there!

  11. Excelsior says:
    September 19, 2009 at 12:34 pm

    Would Moat seriously be in cahoots with the idiot?

    I see him as a NUFC fan who wants what is best for the club. That is not keeping Ashley here.

  12. Some people astound me!

    Because people have different opinions from some people theri seen as ‘the mob’.

    For gods sake man!

    Some people need to get off their soap box and engage in debate rather than attempt to belittle people who happen to have different views.

  13. workyticket says:
    September 19, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    Hugh de Payen says:
    September 19, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    “I’ve no idea what he said Worky.”

    At the risk of misquoting him slightly, he said that he was taking a back seat, because he could feel the early signs of ‘mob rule’ encroaching on the site. Well, very roughly, anyway.

    I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m a bit wrong there!
    ——————————————————–
    Worky that’s unfair, are you saying anyone who doesn’t like Ashley and wants him out is part of this nasty “mob” mentality? Surely just because someone has a different view point to you does not make them part of a “mob”?

  14. Can anybody proffer a valid reason – aside from the ‘paying off the debt’ argument, seeing as he had little or no choice to do so due to his haste in purchasing this football club instead of checking out the books first – as to why your average Novocastrian should feel compelled to feel anything but suspicion or distrust towards Mike Ashley?

  15. Takes one to know one.
    Shouting divvy abuse couldn’t ever be construed as ‘soapbox’ behaviour, could it?
    & doesn’t hurling abuse abnegate the point of serious debate?

  16. I’m still not convinced about ‘mob rule’ Worky. I think the opinions of authors and commenters on this site are quite diverse, hence all the arguing.

  17. I’ve noticed the odd individual on this otherwise fine blog ‘taking their ball home’, figuratively speaking, if their viewpoint is opposed. Not exactly conducive to healthy debate, that.

  18. Tino 11 says:
    September 19, 2009 at 12:42 pm

    “Worky that’s unfair, are you saying anyone who doesn’t like Ashley and wants him out is part of this nasty “mob” mentality?”

    No, Tino, not at all. Clint put it much better than I could:

    “Que another round of the same old verbal abuse we’ve heard a gazillion times already. What a bore.”

  19. Why thank you worky ticket.
    It is a bore is it not? I’ve no problem with a good debate based on differing opinions, but it’s really dull when it descends into abuse.
    I’m sure that if you have an argument(a point) you should be able to put it across
    & if it’s a good one, you’ll win said argument?

  20. It’s typical of his short sightedness and his total and utter lack of understanding when it comes to football.

    ……..

    On the flip side, you could say interested parties are only coming up with the money now since they’ve seen our great start to the season.

    Where were they back in June?

  21. Rangerman,

    Didn’t the regime let it be known we’d had at least two bids before the season even started?

    Either way were led to believe that Moat had got the about 6 weeks ago.

  22. I’m sorry but the only insult at Ashley i see on this thread is this one;

    CaptainKidd says:
    September 19, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    The fat odious c__t is shifting the goalposts again to f__k everyone about.

    I don’t think “Ashley is offered £100m to shove off” or “get out of this toon” are really nasty, vindictive insults, are they?

  23. Clint,

    “I’m sure that if you have an argument(a point) you should be able to put it across
    & if it’s a good one, you’ll win said argument?”

    I may sound like something of a hypocrite if I agreed with that after my rantings yesterday! :-)

    Clint, I’m just getting sick of putting hours a day into this ‘blog so people can repeat the same tired and nasty guff, Ashley’s a fat c**t, Let’s run the fat b*astard out of Toon, Cockney Mafia, Barrow boys etc etc. I have better things to do with my life than perpetuating even more of this ignorant sh*t.

  24. workyticket says:
    September 19, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    I may sound like something of a hypocrite if I agreed with that after my rantings yesterday! :-)

    Worky i think it terms of fairness you should respond to Excelsior’s post on his thread (post 98).

  25. Didn’t the regime let it be known we’d had at least two bids before the season even started?

    …..

    Again you seem to believe everything Llambias says.

    If the club did have 2 £100 million bids on the table then why wasn’t it sold? If you think it wasn’t sold because Ashley wants more money then it goes against what you said earlier about him only looking to stay to get more money now the team has started well.

    Why is it taking Moat so long to get a deal done btw? Is he really this piss poor that he can’t even sort out an overdraft after a month of trying?

  26. Worky ticket, You’re doing a damned fine job mate, keep it up. I know sometimes it wears you out trying to get people to be reasonable & not just resort to slagging. & sometimes you let fly, it happened to me the other day & i lost it, somewhat. But i did apologize. All you can do is your best son.
    But don’t get too disheartened, there’s always a few who are actually looking for that kind of reaction, just so they can hit you over the head with it & claim you’re the unreasonable one. Convenient.

  27. Worky – you can’t expect United fans to hold Ashley in any esteem, considering he single-handedly contrived to screw up the entire club with his crazy decisions and “achieve” relegation.

    At this pount in time Ashley’s ownership of our club is still the biggest issue on the block, and most fans would like to be rid of him ASAP.

    Only then will we genuinely be able to move on.

    Until then, whenever Ashley is the focus of an article, people like me will offer the same opinion, Stardust will continue to quote from his Boys Book of Finance and call people names, and you will continue to be frustrated!!!

    It’s the way of the world mate :)

  28. Rangerman says:
    September 19, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    No Rangermand I don’t believe ANYTHING Llambias says.

    I was making the point tha the club is run by a bunch of idiots who cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

    If Llambias said the grass at St James’ Park was green I would have to go and look to make sure.

    The regime is a constant lie.

  29. Call me naive if you like but I don’t see this article as controversial.

    Whatever anyone’s views on Ashley might be, I can’t imagine any fan wants an owner who’s just looking to sell. The club is in desperate need of some stability and long-termism and – unless Ashley does a U-turn and decides to keep the club for the long-term – he has to go to give us a chance of getting that.

    Arguments about what sort of owner Ashley was are, as I see it, separate. As it stands now he’s an obstacle in the way of progress.

  30. workyticket says:
    September 19, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    “Clint, I’m just getting sick of putting hours a day into this ‘blog so people can repeat the same tired and nasty guff, Ashley’s a fat c**t, Let’s run the fat b*astard out of Toon, Cockney Mafia, Barrow boys etc etc. I have better things to do with my life than perpetuating even more of this ignorant sh*t.”

    Worky, don’t let the barstewards grind ya down! ;-)
    You have made a great blog here, don’t let them spoil it.

    BTW what happened to the end of that Bobby Robson biography you did? It was the best thing I’ve read on here, not that the other blogs aren’t good like!

  31. workyticket says:
    September 19, 2009 at 1:08 pm (Edit)

    Clint, I’m just getting sick of putting hours a day into this ‘blog so people can repeat the same tired and nasty guff, Ashley’s a fat c**t, Let’s run the fat b*astard out of Toon, Cockney Mafia, Barrow boys etc etc. I have better things to do with my life than perpetuating even more of this ignorant sh*t.

    =======

    I’m not sure what the solution is to that mate.

    You could instigate editorial policies for every article and moderate every comment but I’m not sure what sort of place this would turn into or how popular it would be if you did that.

  32. There will be peace in our times.

    But we’ll never all agree.

    That’s what the blog is for, right?

    Except we should really be arguing about the best place for a pint before the game, why the tactics were wrong and whether Xisco was ever a good player.

    That’ll come evenutally. This site was just spawned at a rough period for us.
    If we get through the other side, this will be a great blog.

  33. Hey Worky – dont let the buggers get you down – – my point at the time wasnt about Mob Rule – I was saddened when certain individuals saw fit to lower the tone of this blog – We both know who they are.

    But I actually welcome debate (maybe not shaped the way Hugh has steadily headed) but even that is as a result to how he feels he has been treated by the club.

    Both you and I are saddled with the fact that when – so far – people have the opportunity to voice their opinions – they are writing articles re things they need to say.

    Fortunately this site isn’t one man’s view but a representation of our fan base (another sad fact to those of an objective view).

    I take an egalitarian view that my opinion is correct as its logic is unbreakable,undeniable and objective – but we have to face facts the majority of our fans aren’t objective – they allow subjectivity to shape their views.

    Thereon the majority of our fans do far more damage to the thing they love (mirrors irony of their hero)than any other individual.

    I cant accept that these people act as they do on here about NUFC in a way that they would behave with other things they love – like with their own families.

    But these people exist Worky – NUFC is stuck with them – its sad for us – but we are in the minority.

    Bandwagons are easy to jump on – and not so easily jumped off. Weak men and fools ride those bandwagons – as I stated recently – usually those people are insecure and have some form of lives that makes them feel like they need to lash out at those to blame for their suffering (whoever or whichever stranger it is)

    There isnt an answer – but I will hold my line, defend the club – and despair for what the majority of NUFC fans have become.

  34. Didn’t the Old Egalitarians used to play in the Football League? You never heard the chant “sing in the cheap seats” though.

    Stardust – much of what I can’t get with your comments sometimes, is that we end up debating about debating.

    Your subjectivity is often just as strong, but just on a different side of the debate to some of the lads who get on here.

    But if everything were fact, we probably wouldn’t need opinions anymore.

  35. super rod ….. where the f**k you gone ? , us weak individuals are unable to express ourselves without you…it’s pathetic but we love you..xx

  36. Stardust says: September 19, 2009 at 9:02 pm: POST 43, as it shall henceforth be known.

    I’m sitting here in utter disbelief at the drivel I’ve just read. You’re the GREAT THINKER here? I can just see you now: replete with cravat, smoking jacket and long stemmed cigarette, hunkered down in your dusty garret surrounded by leather bound tomes of history’s great theologians. You dip in and out of their weighty volumes…merely to confirm your own “egalitarian view that my opinion is correct as its logic is unbreakable,undeniable and objective”.

    Condescending, patronisng and belittling the opinions of others, then wrapping yourself in a scoundrels flag of “Logic” is an act of posturing that, even an old ham-bone like me has to shake his head at. Who died and made you North East distributor of reason? Wear those logical blinkers, if you must, but if I might offer a question…oh learned one! If those of us who seek an end to Ashley’s incompetent rule are so very wrong…there has to be a case for his defence? Would you care to state it for us? That we might have the veil lifted from our eyes…and see the error of our ways?

    I guess we just have to be grateful that vast intellects like yours can find it in them to tolerate we lesser mortals. Beautifully written though, I have to say….RUBBISH…but beautifully written. I particularly liked the painful, tortured tone it adopted.

    Breathtaking! I think I’m going to like it here.

  37. Excelsior,

    You have to give Stardust full marks for breath-taking arrogance though.

    He truly believes that only his view is objective, logically consistent and in the long-term interests of the club, whereas the rest of us are still in the trees, playing with twigs and deciding whether or not to bother evolving.

    I find it strangely endearing these days: I want to pat him on the head and say “there, there”.

  38. I just find the broken record that is Stardust a bit of a sideshow these days.

    His arguments, what there are of them, were broken ages ago….but he can’t see it.

    I will always remember however that he is the author of the daftest idea I have ever read in a blog – that Sir Kevin Keegan was single-handedly responsible for United’s relegation.

    I chuckle every time I recall that one :)

  39. Hugh de Payen says:
    September 20, 2009 at 8:04 am

    UTD111 says:
    September 20, 2009 at 8:14 am

    Oh, I see. He was touted to me as this great “Man of Letters”, both literate and knowledgeable, and once he “Got his hands on me” (whatever that means) I would be in trouble.

    This is a fantastic site, by the way, from both a content and design standpoint.

  40. Excelsior – likewise – great post (even though I suffer throughout lol)

    “If those of us who seek an end to Ashley’s incompetent rule are so very wrong…there has to be a case for his defence?”

    Firstly – I am not against any fan wanting Ashley out – his mistake – in the main – has always boiled down to PR. Communicate with the fans Mike and you would have saved yourself 100m or so – a big price for something that was available for zero cost.

    Whilst I am not against any fan wanting Ashley out there is a caveat. Articles like this create more negativity – more internal hatred – more discomfort as it spews after a few misplaced passes onto the pitch. even those poor passes are now Ashleys fault. It saddens me that people can be so moronic whilst at games. We all have responsibility to ourselves and NUFC to support at all costs.

    Debate is therefore welcome but even you must admit Excelsior – there is a huge contingent that can not separate debate from action.

    Your question about Ashley’s defence – what is it – I simply say – replay the whole series – take into account “timing” take into account the witch hunters who were saying he was asset stripping the club and here for profit – when nothing was further from the truth.

    Once you have replayed the whole sorry affair I feel he is somewhat vindicated – BUT communication would have explained this to the fans of course and maybe we wouldnt even be having this debate now.

    I am happy to go through any points you would like to point out for the “case for the defence”.

    As for those stating I believe KK is to blame – I do believe if he hadnt walked we wouldnt have went down – as the fans wouldnt have turned on the club.

    Once he had walked we had the chance to save ourselves – here I feel the management, managers, team, press and fans all let themslves down in a number of ways.

    I believe in collective responsibility not scapegoats.

  41. Stardust says:
    September 20, 2009 at 10:14 am (Edit)

    “Articles like this create more negativity – more internal hatred … ”

    ===

    Gee, thanks! Shall I make sure my articles are in agreement with your views in future?!

    Look, if Ashley announces he plans to keep the club for the long-term I’ll reconsider. Until then I stand by my view that the club’s better off without an owner who doesn’t want it. That being the case, I also maintain that Ashley leaving is a *positive* thing because we’ll then be able to plan for long-term stability for NUFC, which has been sorely lacking for some time now.

  42. Well – I have just “copied and posted” the next slice of info – re Einstein and the Law of Attraction – just another sideshow to why I blame the collective – unfortunately the Mob have more influence at the moment.

    “The Law of Attraction can be explained in a scientific way through the revelations of Quantum Physics.

    Quantum Physics fundamentals

    Quantum physicists discovered that the atom was not made up of particles. Electrons, neutrons, and protons are not the smallest units of matter, but in fact these break down in to even smaller units called crazy things like ‘quarks’. And what are these tiniest of things made of? They are not made of smaller particles at all, but are in fact in their purest most basic form – energy.

    Einstein discovered this when he brought forward the famous equation of E=MC2. Check it out here at Amazon: Einsteins’ theory tells us that all matter is essentially energy. Einstein that talks about the history of the development of the equation, and its contribution to our understanding of the universe. What else do we know about energy?

    * Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but changes in to form, moves through form, and out of form.

    * Energy is constantly vibrating.

    * Energy vibrates in waves called ‘frequencies’.

    * Energy vibrates at different speeds causing different frequencies.

    * Energy waves are attracted to other energy waves of the same frequencies. Think of a tuning fork – when you ping a tuning fork in a room full of other tuning forks only the ones that are calibrated to the same frequency will ping back. Energy waves of the same frequency are attracted to one another. This where the assertion “Like attracts like’ comes from.

    What does this tell us about the universe?

    * Everything is made of energy.

    * Energy waves are attracted to energy waves of the same frequency – like attracts like.

    * All ‘things’ are made of energy waves, vibrating at different wavelengths, even things that appear ‘solid’ – like a table.

    * No solid object is really solid. Anything that appears solid to our perception is just energy waves vibrating at a very slow rate.

    So what?

    This is the law behind everything that happens in your life – success, failure, car crashes, stubbed toes, surprise birthday parties, great friendships, rotten friendships.

    Everything you experience in your life is a result of the vibrations you created as an energy being being matched by similar vibrations.

    If you want to experience something different in your life, whether it is more money, more love, more freedom, more security, more fun, more adventure – then you need to master your vibrational frequencies. Feel good, and you will attract more of the things that make you feel good. Feel bad and think negative thoughts then you will attract more things and experiences of similar vibration. The lesson is simple – choose happiness and joy and you will be rewarded with more of the same.”

    Well – looks like I have just officially proved I’m a bit mad lol.

  43. Stardust, on this Law of Attraction stuff. I have no objection to things like ‘positive thinking’, ‘keeping a bright outlook on life’ and so on and so forth and I have no doubt they can be useful from a psychological perspective, but I do wish people would stop trying to drag quantum physics, Einstein and relativity into it in order to lend it an additional air of authority.

    Experienced scientists struggle to fully understand the implications of quantum physics, let alone authors of self help books. Furthermore, despite the standard model being one of science’s most successful theories, quantum physics is in fact incomplete anyway (Bell’s inequality, quantum gravity, string theory etc) so it’s a bit presumptuous to base self help guides on it.

    My opinion is that things like this so called ‘Law of Attraction’ self help stuff probably do work for some people but only in the same way that the placebo effect often works in medical issues, and any quantum relevance is tenuous at best (in the sense that everything’s quantum to some extent) and nonsense at worst.

  44. Stardust….a man of letters indeed. As one low vibrating energy source to another; well said. They say “Magic” is all about misdirection…they should look at this blog!

    Mad? I’ll not hear of it! Your “Cosmic Rationale” is spot on. There are examples aplenty, in both science and faith, to back the “Sow as yea shall reap” credo. “Quantum Physics” is a masterstroke, touche, sir.

    Your “Ashley Defence”, however…not as well fortified. The replaying of his disastrous tenure in charge, painful though it is, reveals much about the man…perhaps more than he would like.

    I need to post this in two parts as my son has just reminded me it’s football practice in 20 mins. In the words of General Douglas MacArthur…”I shall return!”

  45. Hugh – you will find this strange – but I will also take the positives if Ashley goes – though I will take the positives if he stays.

    My loyalty is towards NUFC not any man (Ashley and KK included)

  46. Excelsior “The replaying of his disastrous tenure in charge, painful though it is, reveals much about the man…perhaps more than he would like.”

    Its a shame people started hunting him before they knew his motives – he could never recover from the distrusting xenophobic “geordie nation” – who couldnt believe that a wealthy man might of bought a football club to – in the words of Ashley himself – “to have some fun”. The irony clangs like a church bell on a deserted street in the wild west as the gun slingers ride into town.

    Trouble is – when(if) we are bought out – will the winning gun want fun or a financial return………..

  47. Hugh “My opinion is that things like this so called ‘Law of Attraction’ self help stuff probably do work for some people but only in the same way that the placebo effect often works in medical issues, and any quantum relevance is tenuous at best (in the sense that everything’s quantum to some extent) and nonsense at worst.”

    What can not be explained is why those quarks, atoms, cells, people congregate into life and perform – how did those minute cells come together to “think” and “Act”.

    I appreciate many of the unanswered quandaries of life, they can only be theorised – but what can not be explained – is that the large scale theories (where the theory of relativity is based) is unshakeable today….tomorrow who knows?

  48. Batty – you have to get yourself an avatar!

    We should have a Batty Avatar comp – a bit like with had the BTG SO69 renaming comp.

  49. Stardust, I have no doubt our scientific theories will undergo much change. They always do, usually when physicists think they’ve got it cracked, which is what happened when relativity and quantum mechanics overthrew Newton and turned physics upside-down.

    What I’m objecting to is using Einstein, quantum mechanics etc. as a cheap tie-in to try and lend credibility to a self-help philosophy. Let the self-help method stand alone: if it works (and I have no doubt it will for some people) then that should be enough. Or, if they want to tie in a quantum relationship, they should get some papers submitted to Nature for scrutiny and see how it stands up.

  50. Stardust says:
    September 20, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    “We should have a Batty Avatar comp”

    My avatar is a picture of batty as a bairn. He’s thinking up mischief, as usual! :-)

  51. Hugh de Payen says:
    September 20, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    “What I’m objecting to is using Einstein, quantum mechanics etc. as a cheap tie-in to try and lend credibility to a self-help philosophy. Let the self-help method stand alone: if it works (and I have no doubt it will for some people) then that should be enough. Or, if they want to tie in a quantum relationship, they should get some papers submitted to Nature for scrutiny and see how it stands up.”

    Have to agree with you on that one, Hugh.

  52. Render unto the quantum universe that which belongs to the quantum universe and render unto the classical universe that which belongs to the classical universe. As many times as I kick a ball to the sky it will always hit the ground soon after, for this is the classical world in which we live; whereas in the quantum universe/(multiverse) this cause & effect is not necessarily true. But it matters not, as we don’t live there, it remains a theoretical space.

    Besides, we reached the moon using classical physics. And Hugh, Newton, Kepler et al were never ‘overturned’. Quite the opposite, their ideas still work perfectly well most of the time for most stuff.

    As for vibrations, check out Pythagoras who pre-dated (and arguably pre-empted) modern physics with his notion of the fundamental universal vibrational frequency… of which all matter (in some way or other) is simply a higher harmonic thereof. This apparently abstract reasoning has been central to recent discoveries in particle physics.

    By contrast faith, that most idle of indulgences, least answerable of crackpot speculations and most one-trick of philosophical ponies, is neither demonstrable nor tangible so (by its own tawdry definition) cannot be science. So (despite what popular science and new age sections apparently seek to claim) this ‘faith’ thing can have nothing at all to do with anything that is ‘science’ – quantum physics included.

  53. Jinky,

    “Hugh, Newton, Kepler et al were never ‘overturned’.”

    I disagree.

    Newton’s calculations were very accurate of course – certainly enough to get us to the Moon and to use for everyday purposes. They were slightly out, but that’s not the point.

    Conceptually, relativity ‘overturned’ Newtonian physics because it postulated a very different type of universe: one where the previous assumptions about space & time (which Newton used) don’t hold.

  54. No matter how great, how practical or ’empirical’ they may seem, all scientific theories can be “overturned”. We are human and we are limited, therefore our understanding of the universe will always be limited by our own particular perception of things. Quantum mechanics has much to teach us in this area.

  55. 64 workyticket says:
    September 20, 2009 at 1:38 pm
    Stardust says:
    September 20, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    “We should have a Batty Avatar comp”

    My avatar is a picture of batty as a bairn. He’s thinking up mischief, as usual
    <<<<< you know me that well are you sure your not my elder brother lol

  56. batty,

    Login, click “profile” (where you’ve logged in on the sidebar), scroll down until you reach “Profile Picture”. Then click the “browse” button and this will enable you to upload a picture from you home computer.

    If you want any help editing your pic, eg cutting a bit off the sides, making it smaller or clearer etc, let me know and I’ll sort it out for you. I have to go out again for a while though, so please bear with me for a while if you do.

  57. Science is a process of discovery, and (of course) postulates and proofs build on each other, even if by contradiction. But this is not via ‘overturning’, rather by something akin to Hegelian dialectic (thesis > antithesis > synthesis)

    Thus each scientific ‘school of thought’ works within the available observed or predicted parameters at that time. Classical physics however remains pertinent, in spite of post Einstein theorising, and is (for example) integral to many software navigation systems etc, often without need of conceptual or actual quantum corrections.

    For the most part, quantum physics is undetectable within everyday macro existence. And F=MA is of far more practical usage than e=mc2. Thus we need to careful with the term overturned (= invalidated / disproven), as quantum physics acts more as a corrective factor within (rather than a wholesale re-writing of) Kepler and Newton’s universe. Of course it then opens up an entirely different set of conceptual possibilities that are endlessly fascinating, but F still equals MA for all intents and purposes that you or I will ever need to understand.

    Great stuff….

  58. batty says:
    September 20, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    “worky it dusent say profile m8”

    Just caught me batty!

    Hmm. It should say “Dashboard”, “Profile” and “Logout” on the right hand side under “Welcome batty” so long as you have logged in?

    If not, go to your “Admin” page. At the top right it should say “Howdy batty”, click on the batty and that will take you to your profile page.

    Jinky,

    I will ruminate on your excellent comments when I’m out. They’re kinda pushing the boundaries for a football ‘blog though! :-)

  59. Jinky, we’re getting into the semantics of the word ‘overturned’ now. I would suggest that the interpretation of how Einstein modified Newton might vary considerably depending upon whether one is an applied physicist or a theoretical physicist. The former might see merely a slight improvement in precision whereas the latter gets a whole new universe to play with.

  60. Jinky – whats your views on the law of Attraction applied to an individuals and or groups ability to influence outcome?

  61. I was ‘relatively’ ****ed at the 11th mile of the GNR today.

    Some ridiculously erudite folk on here and quite honestly much of it has gone over my head. Or at least I had never considered the theories previously.

    This is nufcblog.org…….isn’t it? 8O

  62. Sorry Batty but, unless I miss my guess, Stardusts flowery sobriquets are the front for a wrinkly pair of knackers…so…not my type!

    I’ve had a think about “Replaying Ashley’s Tenure”, as he suggested, and have decided to put it in an article for next week…i”ve got a lovely, “Bigoted” cartoon to accompany it. Should go down a treat.

    Congrats Bowburn on running a long way with an iffy knee. Please e-mail me the necessary destination for funds and a few quid will be headed in your direction.

    Once again, consistently readable chit chat pervades this splendid bunfight!

  63. Excelsior says:
    September 20, 2009 at 7:10 pm
    Sorry Batty but, unless I miss my guess, Stardusts flowery sobriquets are the front for a wrinkly pair of knackers…so…not my type
    <<<<lol

  64. @ Excelsior

    In preperation for your article about Ashley i thought i’d post one of Stardust’s most famous defences of the fat man, the Red Bus post!

    Perhaps you could include it in your article and images! :-)

    Stardust // Jan 29, 2009 at 12:19 PM

    I awoke from a deep sleep, NUFC were financially crippled, wages were 70% of turnover which meant we would lose money again this year, no money for signings – as we can’t add to the wage bill, I asked why we were like this.

    Because we were on the Bus to oblivion being driven by Shepherd was the answer, he has taken 35million in dividends when we had lost 55million – Oh I exclaimed.

    On speaking to bystanders I was told the club were paying the conductors were getting paid 80k a week but they has stress and couldn’t work, the mechanics were on 70k a week, but didn’t like oil, others who were on similar wages just weren’t performing. They looked closer and saw that all the money in ticket sales had been removed from the Bus company as dividends, nothing was left. The passengers asked where are we headed, “Leeds is just ahead” was the reply. I looked out of the window, I could see the Leeds Hilton Hotel, just beyond it Leeds Station and Leeds University, it was true, the tachograph also told the same story.

    Well just turn the bus back to Newcastle I said to the passengers, we cant, no-one can do it, the engineers wont engineer, the driver is taking us there, and the conductor just can be bothered. Employ someone else to do it, we cant came the reply we cant afford any wages we are imploding and going to crash.

    Suddenly a multi-billionaire called Mike stormed onto the bus, he was an expert engineer and he could drive, albeit a car but he hadn’t driven a bus before.

    So what of this new driver – Apparently he has cleared out all of our debt from his own pocket – impeccable pedigree, he has shown himself to be incredibly successful.

    Yes he has cleared off the debt, we’ve seen the buses account, but we hate him – he is just going to make money out of us shouted the passengers, “Sorry” I exclaimed “I don’t understand”. We were going to crash and he is steering us to safety. Don’t Care – came the reply, get more people on the bus, but how? We have no money, don’t care get more people on the bus.

    Mike slowed the bus and started to turn it around, Mike being an expert looked at the paint, he had his best coachworkers look at the bus. “Bodge came the reply. The chassis is rotten, the suspension cant take this load, the engine is lazy and sluggish yet incredibly expensive to run, in fact the whole bus is being held together by its Shiny Red Paint.

    Mike used to be a strong and wealthy man, but in between buying the bus and starting to mend it he had lost most of his wealth so he didn’t have the money to put things right the way he wanted to, he envisaged fun and jy at owning the bus, reality was settling in.

    “We hate him” the passenger shout, in looking at the chassis he scratched and chipped the paint. And now he is throwing the staff off, he says he doesn’t want them as they are lazy, always off sick, he wants to make the bus go faster with a new fuel in the engine, a fuel that is a mix of youth and experience.

    The freeloaders were thrown off, Mike stripped off the thin veneer of paint, and found rust everywhere, he stripped it all out until it was back to bare metal. He started rebuilding the bu, he brought in cheaper but more eager and better skilled workers. He could not do it all at once as the lazy underperformers had long contracts, removing and replacing staff was an almost impossible task that had to be handled carefully.

    Mike eventually got the steering working, the bus had a direction again, the new youth fuel showed great promise, the experience mix, at the right price was harder to find, Mike knew not to buy the wrong or expensive to run fuel or his bus would grind to a halt, he was prepared to run light for a while and only add people to his bus that would make it run faster. As the bus travelled back to Newcastle the panels were all new, the chassis firm, and they knew things were being put back together. The new windows went in, the seats were replaced, and they scoured the world for the best staff who would work for reasonable wages. They couldn’t afford anything else.

    As they approached Newcastle and drove over the tyne bridge, a team of engineers on the bridge marveled at the new panels and improved chassis, Mike shouted that he would improve the engine even more in time, the windows gleamed, the bus was solid, it was able free of some of the lead weight able to move and turn quicker.

    As the past the engineers as crowd gathered – “Where’s our red Paint” they screamed, the red panels were replaced by a stealy grey metal finish, mike couldn’t afford to add the finishing touches, he had been rebuilding the chassis and mechanics first.

    Wheres our Red paint – a Mob gathered. Mike came out he made a statement, produced his figures, explained he had a limited budget. The Crowd were incensed. Wheres our red paint.

    One of the gathering crowd threw a brick and smashed the windscreen, taking mikes attention away from the road, the engineers screamed “ no the bus is starting to work now you need patience, it’s the only way” the mob didn’t hear it was furious.

    A second brick, a third and a barrage. The bus windows and panels smashed, the wiring and seats were ripped out, the tyres slashed, then a petrol bomb, Mike didn’t know what to do. As the mob pelted the bus he was sad as they had simply misunderstood. Perhaps if I had told them exactly what I was doing he reflected – maybe he was right.

    Mike tried to sell the bus, he couldn’t no-one would buy it, so he thought he would put it back together, he knew as he was an engineer, the only way to make it work was to start with the chassis again, when Wise man Shepherd came to his side. “Paint it red son, Paint it red – forget your new fuel, forget the chassis, the passengers are happy with getting from A to B, and you can take as much as you want from the club with a bright red bus, they just hope to get to the journeys end although we never do, and when we nearly got to leeds you turned us around”

    Mike believed passionately he wanted to get to many journeys ends and see great things, he knew that started with getting the right people on the bus, he knew how to build a real bus despite everyone telling him he didn’t know how. He knew engineers built things that lasted forever and other engineers would appreciate what he would done, in time those who simply wanted red paint would have to understand – a bus needs something that holds it together.

    Mike went back to his bus, the crowd were there, painting the rusting shell and burned out wreckage bright Red, even though the bus could no longer move.

    The crowd looked at Mike and realised that the bus chassis, even though burned was stronger than a year before.

    Question – do you want Mike to build the chassis and add the staff and fuel it can afford over time to get to many happy journeys end – or do you want the bus painted red?

  65. Tino – think I first wrote that post the KK walk out – around Oct 08 – I stand to be corrected – I posted it again after being asked in Jan – I changed the bit about seeing the accounts if I recall correctly. Terrible spelling and grammar though!

    But I stand by it – even now.

  66. On re reading it had to be post KK walkout as in late Jan the 08 accounts were released which posted a 20.5mn loss.

  67. Love the Avatar Batty!

    I understand Sir Kevin can’t drive a bus but he’s rather good at taking a team to the top of the Premier League.

    I’d love to see the child Stardust call such a legend a “coward” to his face…….

    He’d sh*t himself LOL

  68. Sorry all, I seem to have logged onto girly swot physics homework.com. I’ll change my bookmark for bigjugs.com to make sure it takes me to the right place next time. Ta ta. :-)

  69. Excelsior says:
    September 20, 2009 at 1:03 am

    “I’m sitting here in utter disbelief at the drivel I’ve just read. You’re the GREAT THINKER here? I can just see you now: replete with cravat, smoking jacket and long stemmed cigarette, hunkered down in your dusty garret surrounded by leather bound tomes of history’s great theologians. You dip in and out of their weighty volumes…merely to confirm your own “egalitarian view that my opinion is correct as its logic is unbreakable,undeniable and objective”.

    Hugh de Payen says:
    September 20, 2009 at 8:04 am (Edit)
    Excelsior,

    You have to give Stardust full marks for breath-taking arrogance though.

    He truly believes that only his view is objective, logically consistent and in the long-term interests of the club, whereas the rest of us are still in the trees, playing with twigs and deciding whether or not to bother evolving.

    I find it strangely endearing these days: I want to pat him on the head and say “there, there”.

    It’s really sad to see some of the writers on here joining in with the bully boy tactics and the personal attacks. You should know better. You may not agree with everything Stardust says, but there’s no need for personal ridicule.

  70. nufcbb says: September 21, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    On the contrary, it’s this kind of inspired nonsense that keeps people blogging. If you think those comments constitute bullying then you really ought to get out more.

  71. Excelsior says:
    September 21, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    “On the contrary, it’s this kind of inspired nonsense that keeps people blogging.”

    Excelsior, it isn’t “inspired nonsense”, it’s just nasty. I used to like this blog because it was remarkably free of all that crap, but it’s sad to see it sinking to that level of mindless abuse just like all the rest. Looking at some of the comments, I’m not the only person who feels that way either.

  72. nufcbb – unfortunately it’s what happens when a blog becomes popular. People are naturally interested in what is being posted and may not always agree with what is being said. I’m no word-smith, but I know what I want to say and I think I can dictate it at a reasonably intelligent level, especially with my goggle auto spell checker switched on.
    I’m with you on the personal attacks. Fair enough you don’t agree with the opinion posted, but at least try and get across why you disagree rather than just writing “tosser” or what a load of garbage.

  73. Micky Toon says:
    September 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Micky Toon, I agree with all of that more or less, and I did mean the personal attacks. I suppose that’s inevitable. But when the writers start joining in with the lynch mob on individual site users, something’s gone a bit wrong and it will only make things worse.

  74. Micky Toon says:
    September 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    “Fair enough you don’t agree with the opinion posted, but at least try and get across why you disagree rather than just writing “tosser” or what a load of garbage.”

    Micky Toon, it isn’t even that. It’s the longer, really personal stuff like I quoted above.

  75. Nufcbb

    I certainly didnt take it personally – I thought it was a well written micky take – I enjoyed reading it.

    I am not the kind of bloke who buckles at lines thrown – myself and friends are all “p” takers so I am fair game. If I dish it out I have to be able to take it, and I can.

    Hugh is a good poster and though I have only just came across Excelsior – you can not deny the wit in his pros.

    There are others who lack class and don’t have the ability to debate and fire lines with class – You and I know who they are – we shouldn’t confuse the two types.

    Thanks for sticking up for me – I needed a wingman desperately (so far I have had to do with Batty lol)

  76. Stardust, I have been given some grief for having a pop at you in comment #50, so apologies if I caused offence.

    I stand firmly behind the sentiments of my comment but perhaps I could have worded it differently; maybe so that it seemed like less of an attack on you and more an attack on your views.

    You and I know that – despite disagreeing on a lot of things to do with NUFC and getting a little heated in debate occasionally – we don’t actually hate one another, but others probably don’t know that and could suspect personal malice in an inappropriate comment.

  77. Hugh – I sincerely didnt take it personally at all – there are others who I dont like or get on with as they have no class, nor consistent arguments other than “anti” everything (and when you dont like folk their lines are no longer funny – raise the hackles on your neck and make you feel like you want to smash their faces in (get it Batty lol))

    But the like you said – you and I simply debate – no mudslinging further north than where I throw it at you and others – your apology is not needed or warranted.

    Cheers

  78. Stardust says: September 21, 2009 at 4:44 pm.

    Thanks Stardust for reading, and interpreting, my words in the spirit that they were posted.

    As you and i encounter each other more, the meter of our “Conflict” will become more apparent.

    I’m looking forward to the joust.

  79. Blimey!

    Apologies to Stardust for the name calling…..

    Not that Stardust ever does that eh? You jest!!!!

    Unbelievable !! He’s the worst of the lot!!

    No apologies from me Stardy ole chum……when you start, I’ll be there as ever….

    And by the way – does your new self-styled “supporter and defender of the club irrespective of the individuals involved” stance include the period when you refused to go to the games when Roeder was manager?

    You could “campaign” against Roeder but somehow when everyone else campaigns against Ashley – it’s wrong?

    Aye right mate

  80. UTD 111 – if you read the above you will note I refer to the collective having an impact on the club – they have far more influence than they could ever realise – hence the theoretical physics stuff bouncing into the conver-equation.

    There appears on a basic level to be a degree of hypocrisy I accept – but a one that sits comfortably with me – you see I had real facts, real accounts, real information on which to shape and form my views.

    I stopped going when Roeder was manager and FFS was raping the club – it was the game we played Arsenal and we beat them 2 – 0.

    I can not explain what happened but I was outside the ground in a pub and something just switched inside me – I
    with ticket in hand I couldnt support that regime that was destroying the club – ironically the mob salivated and licked their lips after trophy signing after trophy signing were wheeled in never to be paid for (until the next owner arrived)- dividends in their millions, fraudulent transfer fees etc etc whizzed out of the doors to the applause of the Mob.

    Roeder in my mind was a front man for FFS thievery. I saw him as a weak – equally culpable figure who alienated the younger players and hung them out to dry after games to save his own skin. The only thing you can say about GR with 100% certainty on every occasion he is manger after a promising start – he goes headlong to relegation.

    The club was being internally raped, all of our futures were being robbed (which as you will see from todays financial circumstance has been shown to be absolutely correct.)

    So did I side with the regime who stole our future success and placed it in their grubby pockets or the one who attempted to rebuild the ruins left behind?

    To this day I despair of the same fans who now again take the opposite view – of course I have positioned myself on the wrong side once more – the thief was a “geordie” and the paymaster a “cockerney” and I chose to stand next to the man who attempted to salvage a club from the ruins while he was losing most of his personal wealth…. So to you I apologise for not supporting the thieves while they raped my club.

    Put in terms only someone as docile as you can understand – you can accept your daughter or sisters choice of boyfriend and if they go to bed willingly you accept it without a problem.

    Now watch as you sister or daughter is raped while the crowd roar in approval………….. but again I dont expect you to understand …. I expect you sleep with her anyway.

  81. Stardust says:
    September 21, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    ‘Now watch as you sister or daughter is raped while the crowd roar in approval………….. but again I dont expect you to understand …. I expect you sleep with her anyway’

    Classy, real classy.

  82. You were doing ok there ole chum until you called me “docile”

    How little you know……………..

    If you make assumptions like this in your business life – it’s your achilles heel mate – but I’m sure you’ve already discovered this – to your cost…….

  83. UTD111

    The deductions and opinions I hold about you (not assumptions) are gained from comments and events you have personally previously presented – either on or .com – you have never given me reason to form any other opinion than the one I hold.

    You have chosen to portray yourself in the way you do – I take no satisfaction of holding my view – it is simply there within me – matter of factly – therefore I can not apologise.

    I find it rather bemusing that a you continuously fire cheap lines aplenty at me (often even when I haven’t posted for days) – usually on .com – and you now cry like a small child after being called “docile” – here here little boy – here is 10pence go buy yourself a lolly.

    If you are prepared to give it – please be a man about it and take it back.

  84. Stardust

    Your insolence is music to my ears….

    Why would I want you to change from a long winded dimwit talking drivel to someone approaching normality?

    Play on!!

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