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Keegan gets costs. Ashley tried to buy Keegan’s silence.

Posted on October 21st, 2009 | 260 Comments |

Awarded £1.5m costs
Awarded £1.5m costs
Kevin Keegan is to be awarded costs after winning the tribunal for constructive dismissal against Newcastle United.

The full disclosure is as follows:

1. Introduction

In paragraph 54 of our Award dated 1 October 2009, we identified a number of consequential issues the determination of which we postponed in order that the parties could provide us with written submissions on those issues. We have since received detailed written submissions from the parties and, in this Supplementary Award, we set out our determination on those issues.

2. Award

First, we conclude that there is no basis for altering our award of £2m plus interest in favour of Mr Keegan. Clause 14.8.1 of the Contract is not subject to mitigation, as the Club agreed at the hearing. It is subject only to Clause 14.8.5 which does not apply here since Mr Keegan is not employed by ESPN.

3. Secondly, we direct that interest should be paid by the Club from 4 September 2008 to the date of payment of the sum awarded of £2m in accordance with the rates set out in Appendix 2 to Mr Keegan’s Written Submissions dated 6 October 2009.

4. Thirdly, we direct that the Club should pay all of Mr Keegan’s costs. Although part of the hearing and preparation was taken up on the question of whether Clause 14.8.1 applied and, if not, what would be the appropriate measure of damages, this represented only a very small proportion of both. Mr Keegan succeeded on all other significant points. Moreover, we reject the Club’s attempt to rely on the various offers which it made both prior to and during the hearing to settle the claim since none of them involved the Club’s acceptance that he had been constructively dismissed and all of them involved a condition of secrecy or confidentiality.

5. Fourthly, we direct that the Club should pay Mr Keegan’s costs on an indemnity basis given the manner in which it conducted this litigation: its defence on the primary liability issue was, in our view, wholly without merit and it chose to make entirely unfounded allegations against Mr Keegan.

6. Fifthly, we direct that those costs should include the CFA uplifts and ATE insurance claimed by Mr Keegan.

7. Sixthly, we direct that the costs should, if possible, be agreed. In the absence of agreement, the Chairman of the Tribunal will assess the costs to be paid if asked by either party to do so.

8. Finally, we direct that the correct name of the Club should be recorded in our Award dated 1 October 2009 as “Newcastle United Football Company Limited”.

9. We also direct that this Supplementary Award, like the main Award, should be published in the same way, namely we direct that both the Premier League and the Club should publish it on their respective websites.

PHILIP HAVERS QC (CHAIRMAN)
LORD PANNICK QC
KENNETH MERRETT

20 October 2009

I found point 4 interesting, particularly this bit:

… we reject the Club’s attempt to rely on the various offers which it made both prior to and during the hearing to settle the claim since none of them involved the Club’s acceptance that he had been constructively dismissed and all of them involved a condition of secrecy or confidentiality.”

So it seems the club did try to settle with Keegan ahead of the tribunal but only on the condition that Keegan kept quiet about the whole matter and that the club did not accept liability for any constructive dismissal.

Again though, whichever side of this debate you sit, it still means the club is down by another £1.5m and it’s little consolation that Ashley’s responsible for the loss.

Hopefully this is now the end of the end of this.

NUFCBlog Author: Hugh de Payen I'm a baby-boomer of the punk rock persuasion, currently exiled in Somerset for crimes committed in a previous life where locals keep trying to poison me with something called 'scrumpy'. Hates sprouts, coat-hangers, Cilla Black, ornaments, Steven Seagull movies and 50 Cent (he's not worth 10). Hugh de Payen has written 634 articles on this blog.

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260 Responses

  1. Hugh nice one I also found point 4 very interesting. I am so glad that KK went ahead so that Ma couldnt hide the fact that he is just inept and under handed.

  2. From NUFC.COM:

    “Indemnity costs are rare – they are only awarded where the conduct of the losing party was so bad that the Court/Tribunal decides to punish them. Hardly a surprise that they’ve done that here”.

    Would this suprise anyone?

  3. Bittersweet victory. It’ll be used as an excuse why there are no funds for new players in January.

  4. I will be amazed as to how Stardust could defend this paragraph…..

    5. Fourthly, we direct that the Club should pay Mr Keegan’s costs on an indemnity basis given the manner in which it conducted this litigation: its defence on the primary liability issue was, in our view, wholly without merit and it chose to make entirely unfounded allegations against Mr Keegan.

    The amazing thing is that I am sure he will post an argument which states it is another indicator that KK is a coward and completely in the wrong!!

  5. Sorry Stardust, I’m not meaning to be a pr*ck but surely even you admit, in the heat of the moment, it was like trying to put a spin on a concrete block in defending Ashley and criticising Keegan?

    I know you still ‘hate’ KK and disagree entirely with his decisions but can you not see with every new piece of information and each new revelation, that you backed the wrong horse in supporting Ashley? I know, I know, you ‘supported the club….’.

    But will you, at least, admit the board are a bunch of winkers?

  6. London Fife – if your point is about me – so be it.

    The verdict was discussed weeks ago. The panel found in Keegans favour. Therefore the clubs case was without merit – maybe you hadnt understood that.

    But yes – since you brought it up – KKs legs are made of custard – he was born in the Birds Eye factory. I have it on good authority that Kia and bringing a new car out in Keegan Yellow – the interior is also yellow through and through – the outside is old and jaded – it will break down for any reason and drive off – but luckily it knows how to sue anyone who bought it – for not letting it buy its own petrol.

  7. BBM – “I know, I know, you ’supported the club…” Yep correct.

    All I have ever done BBM is try to show the other side – from the difficult position the club were in.

    Irrespective of what went on, how it went on – people forgot it was NUFC against a greedy cowardly rat called Keegan.

  8. Do to the actions of the regime over the past 18 months the majority of fans have seen this as Ashley versus Keegan.

    In actual fact it’s more like Ashley verses NUFC.

    Ashley should be held up as a shining beacon of what can happen to your club when you have an owner who just gets bored and throws the club in a ditch.

    Man City and Chelsea beware.

    Makes a mockery of the Football Leagues fit and proper test I guess.

  9. Stardust – I’d have infinitely more respect if you’d just said – “yes, they are BBM”!!

  10. Make no mistake BBM – I see Ashley wearing clown sized pants from time to time – but everything is easily explainable if he communicated “well” not his “times” outburst at the weekend.

    But I would counter with surely you can see some good he has done? I appreciate it can be brushed off flippantly but the gravity of our solid financial footing outweighs everything for me.

    It will be very interesting at Liverpool – now theres a club on a real precipice!

    One side – Benitez stays and they get bought out. On the other they dont get bought out, Benitez goes and they head straight into administration!

  11. But Stardust you said at the time that Keegan’s case was without merit and you dimissed any suggestion that Ashley and co had acted improperly. Paragraph five is another nail in that arguments coffin.

    Will you in any way re-evaluate your opinions now the “facts” are out in the open?

  12. Stardust – I await evidence that proves there are no hidden debts, at which point I’ll be begrudgingly grateful but it’s hard to imagine it balances out all of his f-up’s, even if it’s true?

  13. Personally I would rather be challenging for everything and be in debt which is servicable, rather than debt free and in the Championship.

    I think 99.9% of the true supporters would agree.

  14. “But Stardust you said at the time that Keegan’s case was without merit and you dimissed any suggestion that Ashley and co had acted improperly.”

    London – youre getting myself and Worky mixed up – I said I would await the outcome of the trial – Worky said lawyers said Keegans case was without merit. I also said irrespective of the verdict when it was announced the biggest wrong for me was KK walking (no need to debate that again)

    To be fair – on reading the verdict – the club must wear clown sized pants again – all they had to do was to cite x amount of examples where DOFs and Club Owners (Abramovich etc) bought players without their managers ultimate say so – and it was case won – but thats back over old ground. But hey ho – onto the weekend.

  15. bowburnmag says:
    October 21, 2009 at 2:44 pm
    Stardust – I await evidence that proves there are no hidden debts, at which point I’ll be begrudgingly grateful but it’s hard to imagine it balances out all of his f-up’s, even if it’s true?

    There are hidden debts BBM.

    There are also transparent debts ie £30m overdraft.

    Why else do you think nobody wants to touch the club with a barge pole?

    To think that nobody wants to buy a football club with a turnover of £60-70m with without debt for only £80m is staggering.

    I can only draw the conclusion Ashley has not written off the £100m he loaned himself.

    No other explaination.

  16. “Irrespective of what went on, how it went on – people forgot it was NUFC against a greedy cowardly rat called Keegan.”

    Hahaha, wipe Fattys smeg off yer chin you doyle.

  17. Also London – I never defended anyone on anything other than Ashley on this point – it should be an owners right to spend his money as he sees fit – and for that owner to provide us with a budget to work to. We can not as fans demand any owner gives us all their money for players – we have to encourage that by support and success.

  18. Stardust you must be a professional WUM as I am a 100% KK supporter but I can still admit that he has done things that he shouldnt have. But with you you just defend Ma to the hilt and I have never heard you express an opinion against your Beloved Mike Ashley.

  19. Jasper – I will take that bite as a king size one.

    Stuart “There are hidden debts BBM”

    Incorrect and disingenuous – the club accounts are filed in accordance with GAAP – debts are obvious and annotated in the audited accounts.

    Its a nonsense – please stop there its embarrassing.

  20. Big Dave “But with you you just defend MA to the hilt and I have never heard you express an opinion against your Beloved Mike Ashley.”

    Incorrect – I have even expressed the opinion that even I would be glad when he is gone in some ways – as he has never learned to communicate – something that was available at zero cost and would have saved him 100mill or so.

  21. Stardust I do apoligize then I must have missed that. So atlest you agree that some communication would have went along way. Do you also agree then that because he hasn’t learnt from his mistake’s he is the wrong person for our club

  22. But what I believe you said Stardust was that you would accept the findings of the Tribunal. The tribunal found that KK had no choice but to leave as he had been contructively dismissed.

    Once the tribunal did not find in the way you hoped, you now just say that the top and very expensive legal team that Ashley threw at it used the wrong legal arguments or they would have won!!

    You decry Keegan as a man lacking principle – and yet when it is anounced as FACT that he did not take larger offers of compensation than he knew he was likely to win because they contained confidentiality clauses!

    Bearing all this in mind – surely you must understand why people belive you either to be Derek Llambias or a massive WUM!?

  23. PS – which to be fair is something you are magnificent at. I have never read anything by anyone who can argue so consistantly that black is white. Does not make it any less annoying though!

  24. Big Dave – Some Communication Dave? Its been a shambles!

    I honestly believe that by talking many would have understood his difficult position on every occasion (not all but at least he would be respected) he has created his own position of mistrust from the fans.

    What I have not enjoyed though is when he has spoken people have screamed that he was a liar without any evidence, that he was here to asset strip and make money – when the accounts showed the opposite.

  25. 31 – London – I wrote an article on here entitled “Keegan – the King is dead” – it sums up how I feel about him – your probably not interested but its on the previous pages of threads

  26. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 2:58 pm

    Stardust you know what I meant when I said hidden.

    Hidden in the fact that £80m isn’t a ‘all in’ figure.

    Cannot be or someone would have snatched his rotten flabby hand off

  27. “Hidden in the fact that £80m isn’t a ‘all in’ figure.”

    The person buying will worry about that Stuart – you neednt –

  28. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 3:23 pm
    “Hidden in the fact that £80m isn’t a ‘all in’ figure.”

    The person buying will worry about that Stuart – you neednt –

    Doesn’t look like anybody’s worrying about does it?

    Wonder why….

  29. People who thought Ashley and co were liars have been proven to be right all along though!!

    I refer you once again to –

    5. Fourthly, we direct that the Club should pay Mr Keegan’s costs on an indemnity basis given the manner in which it conducted this litigation: its defence on the primary liability issue was, in our view, wholly without merit and it chose to make entirely unfounded allegations against Mr Keegan.

    As well as the original tribunal decision of course. And the various club statements saying KK had the final say over transfers etc etc.

  30. Stardust,

    Like Ashley’s defence team in the tribunal, you’re taking the wrong tack ATM. Around the same time as Keegan walked out, He and his partners found Middle Eastern backing for their circus and are now looking to expand world wide, starting with the Middle East and his tie up with Majid Al Futtaim Leisure. He is positively evangelical about it and is talking about moving into circuses for other sports as well.

    Before Keegan joined Newcastle once again however, things were different. Though he had no intentions of returning to football or Newcastle, his circus idea was everything to him, and he was desperate for money for that project and would have taken the manager’s position for £3 Million a year under any circumstances. The Middle East connection changed all of that.

    Ashley was completely let down up by his very expensive lawyers. Whatever his failings, and there are many, they put up an awful defence which went totally in the wrong direction.

  31. Worky > Ashley was completely let down up by his very expensive lawyers. Whatever his failings, and there are many, they put up an awful defence which went totally in the wrong direction
    So the moral of the story is you can have all the money in the world but it cant buy you justice. It also shows that as well as being totally useless as an owner of our club he appoints the wrong men in everything he has done even his Lawyers are sh1te or maybe he didnt want to spent all his money on top lawyers and tried to do it on the cheap. LOL

  32. Big Dave says:
    October 21, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    “So the moral of the story is you can have all the money in the world but it cant buy you justice.”

    Nope, usually it can get you alot of ‘justice’, and I know that from my experiences in the past. But there are exceptions sometimes. Of course, Keegan had very expensive lawyers too.

  33. I’m not going to start this argument again but KK still rules for me.

    One of the best players, and the best manager in our history. Toon icon.

    Nuff said.

  34. And what exactly Worky would the defence have been that would have won the case for Ashley!?! “Yeah we lied and forced an honourable man out of a job he loved, but we have put in lots of cash so please find in our favour”!?!

    Just yet more revisionism from people who can’t/won’t accept that they are wrong.

  35. Amazing, absolutely amazing.

    Now I’m looking at a blog where some of the bloggers know more about winning legal battles than the very, very expensive lawyers Ashley appointed.

    Never ceases to amaze me.

  36. Er, the initial ‘selection committee’ in our early years is the most successful ‘manager’ in our history.

  37. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    October 21, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    “Er, the initial ’selection committee’ in our early years is the most successful ‘manager’ in our history.”

    LOL that’s true Clint. Stan Seymour snr and Joe Harvey won alot more for us than Keegan ever did too.

  38. Worky, not that i like to come across as a pedant like.
    :)

    Oh! How the years have formed cataracts upon thine eyes.

  39. Some good knowledge there Clint Flick. I like it. I would have gone for Joe Harvey, but looking back you’re right.

    People, mostly Stardust these days, talk about the good that Ashley has done, well perhaps, but what he came in and did initially is being undone by all of the crap he has caused since.
    I do not subscribe to the debt is good as long as we are in the PL theory as it’s short sighted and will only lead to ruin. The groundwork is already being done to investigate the levels of debt clubs like ManUtd, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc.. have. Once the Sheiks and Asians decide to write off their taxes in other areas then they will dump their PL toys and leave the clubs in a mess.

  40. “So it seems the club did try to settle with Keegan ahead of the tribunal but only on the condition that Keegan kept quiet about the whole matter and that the club did not accept liability for any constructive dismissal.”

    That’s quite normal, Hugh. You’re trying to make it sound more sinister than it really is.

  41. Ta micky, well someone’s gotta do it. :)

    On the debt thing: You’re damned right there mate.
    That also rings true for real madrid etc.
    The above mentioned make our debt seem like chicken feed.
    Can’t wait for that crap to start hitting the fan, although, i’d wager that they’ll ‘get off with it’, they always do, don’t they?

  42. What i find v. strange is the fact that kk only got the £2m he was always entitled to, printed in his contract.
    Sounds like some weird kinda tie.

  43. Surely he shoulda got more than his contractual entitlement if it was constructive dismissal, shouldn’t he?
    I’m no lawyer, but, go figure.

  44. CLiNT – comment 58 on Real’s debt

    Does my head in! They’ll probably get bailed out by the Spanish govt again, just like last time. They’re more of a national institution that a footy club.

  45. Worky – I hadn’t realised that about the circus – where is that documented – as I cant take the position not to believe everything you read until its evidenced and chose to ignore tat principal if its against KK

    Ashley was completely let down up by his very expensive lawyers. Whatever his failings, and there are many, they put up an awful defence which went totally in the wrong direction.

  46. Pons, me too.
    But, probably more than half the country hate their lousy, stinking guts, don’t they?
    Oh! & they’re well known fascist sympathizers, nice.

  47. Stuart “Now I’m looking at a blog where some of the bloggers know more about winning legal battles than the very, very expensive lawyers Ashley appointed.”

    I have dealt with QCs and higher level barristers on countless occasions in countless cases – so maybe I have an informed view. Worky knows my email address and I need add no more than that alone adds the gravitas to explain that I might know what I am on about.

    Worky can corroborate that. (without disclosing that or domain Worky please! ;) )

  48. Nope Clint – the tribunal decided that the clause in the contract on KK leaving for reasons outwith his control meant he would only ever get 2 million pounds. His contract also meant he would not have been able to speak out about the circumstances of his departure unless he took Ashley to a tribunal. This he did despite knowing he would never get as much money as Ash and co were offering him to keep quiet.

    KK has been proven to be a man of huge integrity and principle. The less said about the temporary owners the better.

  49. London – I am not having a go here “His contract also meant he would not have been able to speak out about the circumstances of his departure unless he took Ashley to a tribunal.”

    Where is that documented?

  50. “So it seems the club did try to settle with Keegan ahead of the tribunal but only on the condition that Keegan kept quiet about the whole matter and that the club did not accept liability for any constructive dismissal.”

    That’s quite normal, Hugh. You’re trying to make it sound more sinister than it really is

    just coz its normal doesnt make it right they tried to buy his silence and thank goodness kk took it to court otherwise we would never have found out how greedy he is and we wouldnt have absolute proof that mike ashley had lied

  51. Good try Stardust with 64 – but I refer you back to 49. There is not a lawyer in the land who could have got Ashley off the hook on this one. The glove is a perfect fit.

  52. RE 70 – Standard practice in all football manager contracts since the inception of the Premier League. I doubt even Ash and co would have left that clause out!!!

  53. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 4:58 pm
    Stuart “Now I’m looking at a blog where some of the bloggers know more about winning legal battles than the very, very expensive lawyers Ashley appointed.”

    I have dealt with QCs and higher level barristers on countless occasions in countless cases – so maybe I have an informed view. Worky knows my email address and I need add no more than that alone adds the gravitas to explain that I might know what I am on about.

    Worky can corroborate that. (without disclosing that or domain Worky please! )

    ——————————————————
    What you’ve made tea and coffee for them? :-)

  54. Clint – re 59 and 61 – his terms of employment meant if he was sacked he only got 2.0m – he tried to say constructive dismissal was a different thing than sacking.

    What is also obvious – is that this was a technical victory rather than a vindication in any way shape or form – as the whole case pivoted on the signing of one loan player.

    Worky is correct – this case was so winnable for NUFC its ridiculous – but Barristers inform you the way to present your case – and they are paid handsomely to do so – this case was very poorly handled imo.

  55. Ginola – lol

    Beye – “we wouldnt have absolute proof that mike ashley had lied” You dont have proof of that either – you have proof that the Barrister leading tried a defence to the arbitration panel that was unaccepted.

    It was a misrepresentation/ a tactic to the panel NOT to the fans – as the explanation was wholly unsatisfactory – i.e. it stank and didnt add up and was not accepted.

    That was a pivotal point of the case to – if the point was accepted the club would have won – the panel didnt accept it – therefore the whole defence that they lied to the fans was cast out – and they didnt win.

  56. “It is subject only to Clause 14.8.5 which does not apply here since Mr Keegan is not employed by ESPN.”

    That’s a very interesting part. Keegan appears as a regular pundit on ESPN, but he isn’t employed by them?

  57. workyticket says:
    October 21, 2009 at 4:35 pm (Edit)

    “So it seems the club did try to settle with Keegan ahead of the tribunal but only on the condition that Keegan kept quiet about the whole matter and that the club did not accept liability for any constructive dismissal.”

    That’s quite normal, Hugh. You’re trying to make it sound more sinister than it really is.

    ====

    Nope, not really.

  58. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    “Worky can corroborate that. (without disclosing that or domain Worky please! )”

    LOL. Nee botha. batty’s got people beleiving all kinds of things anyway.

    On the other thing, I have meeting looming but I will dig out some reading for you when I get back.

  59. Londonfife @67,
    Ok, but why then did kk try for the astronomical amounts reported, when he ‘knew’ (as you say) he wouldn’t be awarded it?

  60. Stardust @ 82
    That’s what i was thinking.
    Doesn’t sound too ‘principled’ either.
    Bit of ‘reverse engineering’ to allow for opinion perhaps?
    ;)

  61. Batty your bad and stardust im surprised at you for discloseing batty’s real email addy in retalation 2 wrongs dont make a right ;) but in your defence batty started it

  62. Stardust,

    October 2007, Keegan pooh-poohs return to management saying that his life has gone in a different direction.

    I will not manage again.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7044692.stm

    Re my earlier point, the ‘Inside Sport’ interview here is one of the things that Ashley’s legal team should have been picking apart with a fine tooth comb.

    Jan 2008: Keegan soccer circus having financial difficulties, less than three months after pooh poohing a return, he returns to his old cash machine on Tyneside.

    Keegan returns as Newcastle boss.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7192457.stm

    February 2008: Figures published regarding the extent of Keegan’s difficulties

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/feb/01/sport.comment

    Mar 2008: Keegan in talks with Majid Al Futtaim Leisure group

    “Kevin Keegan, for the former England football manager, and current manager of Premiership side Newcastle United, is in talks to bring his loss-making Soccer Circus concept to Dubai.”

    http://www.kippreport.com/2008/03/upbeat-keegan-plans-dubai-soccer-circus/

    May 2009: Keegan opens new Soccer Circus at Center Parcs at Whitfell forest.

    http://www.press.centerparcs.co.uk/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=78&NewsAreaID=2

    September 2009: Keegan walks out on Newcastle once again, latest Soccer Circus opens in Dubai.

    http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/article-5635-kevin-keegan-exclusive/

    http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/article-5563-more-soccer-circus-style-attactions-planned/

    There’s alot more to it than this, including poring over the transcripts of what Keegan and his legal team said at the Tribunal, and comparing them with what he has said in the past, but there was something fishy going on on both sides. More to follow if I can still find it.

  63. RE 80 Clint – unless the money being claimed was a long way off the money that had been already offered by Ashley and co, the Premier League would never have granted Keegan the tribunal hearing. In order for the truth to come out the gap had to be such that would not be closed as Ashley got increasingly nervous at losing a PR war against Keegan which, up til then, he had managed to persuade some normally rational fans that KK was more to blame than him.

    The integrity Kevin showed was in ensuring at least some of the impossible circumstances he was having to endure reached the public domain. He was willing for all the evidence to be placed before an independent tribunal who would decide once and for all who was in the right. They backed KK all the way – and no lawyer in the land could have reversed that decision.

    Not a TKO Stardust, but a first round knockout.

  64. A very boring pissing contest, between grown men.
    Enough with the ego trips, puhlease !
    Face it no one comes out of the MA vs. KK case looking good, so let it go.
    It`s the future of this club that should concern us not it`s history.
    Hate to be a downer, but i do not see any light at the end of the tunnel.

  65. Perhaps Ashley’s legal team looked at Keegan’s Soccer Circus and found nothing relevant to a tribunal about constructive dismissal.

  66. no wonder ashleys keen for CH to be manager hes only offerd him £250,000 a year(a lot of money for the normal working man),hes one cheap man like.

  67. chuck says:
    October 21, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    “Face it no one comes out of the MA vs. KK case looking good”

    Chuck, that’s certainly true, but in order to determine the future, first you must be clear about the past. Newcastle United must come to terms with it’s past in order to determine a better future, otherwise the same mistakes will just be repeated, as they have been for many, many years now. I have no interest in a “pissing contest” whatsoever, just a keen interest in Newcastle United’s history, and as a fan, I want it to break it’s perpetual cycle of self deceit and hubris.

  68. hitman says:
    October 21, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    “no wonder ashleys keen for CH to be manager hes only offerd him £250,000 a year(a lot of money for the normal working man),hes one cheap man like.”

    hitman, there is always an exponential rise in levels of renumeration at the very top of any profession, just look at top bankers with their bonuses and such. In other words, Championship managers and Championship players only get a small fraction of what their counterparts at the very top do. Hughton should negotiate a big rise IF he gets the team promoted.

  69. worky they reckon the average wage of a championship manager is £500,000..CH should tell ashley to do one.lol

  70. In fact, it’s a bloody shame Ashley didn’t read it initially because –

    a) he categorically states Allardyce would be a fool to accept a DOF
    b) he states that money needs to be spent to compete with the top four

    He might have prevented this world of pain early doors by realising Keegan wasn’t the right man for the job he wanted him for. Feck knows what would have happened as an alternative like. I have my doubts it wouldn’t have fallen apart anyway. Dennis Wise calling the shots permanently and officially? Save me…..

  71. Hugh de Payen says:
    October 21, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    “Perhaps Ashley’s legal team looked at Keegan’s Soccer Circus and found nothing relevant to a tribunal about constructive dismissal.”

    Hugh, they look at what’s put before them. That’s the job of Keegan’s and Ashley’s legal teams. Ashley’s cocked it up royally. I’m not making a point that he was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, just that he was badly represented. Of course you can also have cases where BOTH sides are in the wrong, whatever the wrong is.

  72. Or perhaps what Hugh is suggesting is that they looked at it and decided it wasn’t something to pursue and possibly what you’re implying is only tantamount to unsubtantiated and conspiratorial slander?

  73. Ashley’s failure to succeed in the arbitration panel has very little to do with the quality of his legal team and everything to do with the fact Ashley neglected to stipulate in Keegan’s contract that he did not have the final say.

  74. to say ashleys lawyers didnt do there home work is daft,they would of looked for the best evidence out there as the same for keegans.

  75. hitman says:
    October 21, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    “to say ashleys lawyers didnt do there home work is daft,”

    No it isn’t. Lawyers make mistakes and errors of judgment every day, just like the rest of us. Newcastle United have payed top footballers many tens of thousands of pounds every week, and they do!

  76. reeto worky,now your just grasping at straws,i agree they make mistakes,but not on this one all the evidence was in the public domain..the FACT statement.

  77. worky – “Bowburn, of course he wasn’t the right man for the job.”

    It’s a fair point and maybe Keegan would have failed but he should have backed him, let him get on with things and let Keegan live and die by his own sword. Instead, he took out a dagger and stabbed him in the back.

  78. workyticket says:
    October 21, 2009 at 8:42 pm (Edit)

    “Hugh, they look at what’s put before them. That’s the job of Keegan’s and Ashley’s legal teams. Ashley’s cocked it up royally. I’m not making a point that he was ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, just that he was badly represented. Of course you can also have cases where BOTH sides are in the wrong, whatever the wrong is.”

    I’m not entirely convinced Ashley’s legal team did cock up. In these cases there has to be a winner and a loser and maybe, despite Ashley’s legal team presenting the best case they could, the result simply didn’t go their way.

    Perhaps Keegan was actually constructively dismissed as the tribunal ruled.

  79. worky – how wrong could they be though? Honestly??

    That’s a heap of evidence you’ve gathered there and no mention of any of it in the findings.

    When I say ‘heap’…… :)

  80. “Perhaps Keegan was actually constructively dismissed as the tribunal ruled.”

    Nah man, he chickened oot 8)

  81. Workey,dont take it personally, it was a general statement, regarding a long and in general ego generated argument.
    Stardust vs. the rest, with yourself as somewhat of a mediator.
    We are all aware of the findings and it`s “old news”(an oxymoron)by now, and does`nt need to be raked over.
    I doubt whether an awareness of prior mistakes has been much of a barrier to repeating them in the past.
    However if you say so, as I have found you to be the voice of sanity and moderation on these blogs.
    On saying that, it`s all the fault of those soft southerners, cockneys, the southern press, etc.
    Self deceit and hubris ! I like that.

  82. bowburnmag says:
    October 21, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    “worky – how wrong could they be though? Honestly??”

    Are you saying that the law is never wrong?

    “That’s a heap of evidence you’ve gathered there and no mention of any of it in the findings.”

    Errrrrrr, that’s the point Bowburn. That isn’t a ‘heap’ anyway. I haven’t even started yet.

  83. i cant believe people are blaming ashley loosing on his legal team if this was the other way around and kk lost the case and we tried blaming kks legal team we would be branded as delusional uninformed and an embarassment to the club the fact is kk won he is right

  84. You’re splitting hairs again!!

    I’m saying if there was so much evidence, how horrible must they be at their vocation to have missed it? All of it I mean?

    Although they WERE hired by Ashley, I see your point…….

  85. “i cant believe people are blaming ashley loosing on his legal team if this was the other way around and kk lost the case and we tried blaming kks legal team we would be branded as delusional uninformed and an embarassment to the club the fact is kk won he is right”

    Now THAT’s ‘honesty’, right there worky!!

  86. chuck – don’t go over to the dark side…..

    worky might appear to be the voice of reason but it’s a veil. He’s an obstinate basket and is never wrong. Or at least that’s how it seems ;)

  87. Worky I’m prepared to accept that Keegan would use some of the money he earned from being manager on his Soccer Circus. I’m even prepared to accept that funding his Soccer Circus might have been one motivation (possibly of many) for taking the job.

    But so what? We all spend our money on something and we all have various motivations for taking a job.

    But it’s then a big step to allege that his constructive dismissal claim has anything to do with his Soccer Circus or that he was anything less than 100% committed to managing Newcastle.

    If you can prove there’s a link then it’s obviously worth considering but otherwise I think it’s an extremely tenuous argument.

  88. bowburnmag says:
    October 21, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    “You’re splitting hairs again!!”

    Splitting hairs has kept myself (and one of my friends) out of prison on many occaisions in the past Bowburn. The law is an ass.

  89. Whatever happened to everyone accepting the decision of the arbitration panel, irrespective of the verdict?

  90. Hugh,

    I think you’ve missed the point completely there. Indeed, I didn’t even intend to make much of a point to start with. I was just tunneling in some ammo for Stardust originally, as he’s in a ‘Rorke’s Drift’ situation ATM with all you schoolyard bullies around him.

  91. Who, out there, thought for one second that kk coming back would work out?
    Honestly, deep in your heart of hearts, regardless of nostalgic tinges?
    It turned out more or less as expected, me thinks.

  92. Worky – thanks for the links

    ShiverMeTimbre says:
    October 21, 2009 at 8:49 pm
    Ashley’s failure to succeed in the arbitration panel has very little to do with the quality of his legal team and everything to do with the fact Ashley neglected to stipulate in Keegan’s contract that he did not have the final say.

    Not often we 100% agree but that was the technical KO I referred to – I agree 100%. Keegan even knew he was getting a DOF – and it was likely to be DW. Ashley said in the hearing it was blindingly obvious from the set up.

    I agree one small clause would have eliminated all uncertainty.

  93. workyticket says:
    October 21, 2009 at 9:30 pm (Edit)

    “Hugh, I think you’ve missed the point completely there. Indeed, I didn’t even intend to make much of a point to start with. I was just tunneling in some ammo for Stardust originally, as he’s in a ‘Rorke’s Drift’ situation ATM with all you schoolyard bullies around him.”

    I resent the implication of being cast as a ‘schoolyard bully’ simply because I disagree with Stardust (what would you have me do, lie?) and I would expect you of all people not to resort to the Ad Hominem fallacy.

    That aside, I really do think the connection between Keegan’s Soccer Circus and the tribunal needs to be proven before it can be used as an argument in relation to it.

  94. Indeed Stardust, but that ‘technical KO’ was the crux of the case. If Ashley had stipulated in Keegan’s contract that he would not have had the final say he would have won. However, it didn’t so he lost. The rest, as they say, is history. Onwards and upwards as Edwyn Collins would have it…

  95. Stardust is ugly enough to look after himself.

    If he wants to be a contrary so and so, people will argue with him.

    That seems like an honest and decent reaction to me.

  96. Well, despite overseeing the best football any of us are ever likely to see and being statistically the best NUFC Manager since Joe Harvey (highest league finish, percentage of games won) the first time round, I had my doubts about the wee fella taking the reigns once more.

    In fact, I was staggered when I heard the news he had been appointed. But that’s history. Keegan’s gone.

  97. Honestly bowburn?
    I’m not saying it can never work out, Pedro being a classic example, but it rarely does.
    I, & i think, quite a few here, thought, uh oh!
    & sadly it came to pass.
    Even my mrs, who has but a passing interest, exclaimed: ‘What? that’ll end badly’!

  98. So 95% of Newcastle supporters and bloggers are wrong and a mere 5% are correct and Ashley isn’t to blame for our Problems!!

    I’m rapidly losing the will to live!!

    Ashley appears to be about to make yet another mistake hiring CH full time and not giving him anyway to increase the squad.

  99. Ashley is an idiot – the article last weekend proved that. Trying to say how much more he puts into the club than the fans is crass – a) the total income from fans is significantly higher than £20 million and b) as a proportion of individual assets most fans spend far more than he does.
    The award of costs comes as no surprise – Keegan’s case would have had to have been very weak to win the case but not get costs.
    However, I do take the view that no-one comes out of this with much credit and I am fed up with the “KK was a wonderful player and manger for us so can’t do any wrong” type of argument. The fact is he DIDN’T have to leave us in the lurch, we could have avoided humiliation, JFK farce, relegation etc.if he had been prepared to suffer a period of “difficulty at work” like we all have – say, till the end of the season- before pushing off. I do NOT rate him for that action.

  100. Bowburn
    Re Workey
    Anyone who can come up with a line like “Perpetual self deception and hubris” gets my attention.

  101. chuck – He only has hubris at weekends with his carrot batons, while ensconsced in his study, unravelling his very own self deceptive conspiracies.

    I bet his table lamp is Keegan as the devil. 8O

  102. Shiver – 137 – perfectly put.

    Magpie – at 144 – that was always my ultimate point – it was the biggest wrong in all of this (im my opinion of course)

    Worky – hilarious – ‘Rorke’s Drift’ perfectly put also – I have to do my best to save the world from itself. Guess that makes Batty and Co – Orcs lol.

  103. ASHLEY had a full season to put things right bar the 1st 3 games which we already had 1 point more than i expected but he kept making mistake after mistake and is still dping it now so was keegan expected to put up with it would you? because i wouldnt

  104. Hugh de Payen says:
    October 21, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    “That aside, I really do think the connection between Keegan’s Soccer Circus and the tribunal needs to be proven before it can be used as an argument in relation to it.”

    To be fair, Hugh, I’ve never seen you write anything like that once in relation to all the lies perpetuated about Ashley. Fairness works both ways.

  105. Actually Rourkes drift was zulu wasnt it lol – what was the place in Lord of the Rings that was similar?

  106. To be fair Hough – Workys right – you choose which tall tales to regale as fact and ignore ones that dont fit your fettle.

    Youre a fibber of the highest order.

  107. lol Shiver – it was the first one where they all were saved at dawn by looking to the east as Gandolf rode in on his white horse.

  108. I must say: This blog seems to have a better class of argument & less general slagging matches, long may that reign.

  109. workyticket says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:20 pm (Edit)

    Hugh de Payen says:
    October 21, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    “That aside, I really do think the connection between Keegan’s Soccer Circus and the tribunal needs to be proven before it can be used as an argument in relation to it.”

    To be fair, Hugh, I’ve never seen you write anything like that once in relation to all the lies perpetuated about Ashley. Fairness works both ways.

    ===

    Oh yes indeed, and I’d expect you to argue with my unfounded allegations, just as I’m doing with yours now.

  110. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:25 pm
    I must say: This blog seems to have a better class of argument & less general slagging matches, long may that reign
    <<<<<aye its because stardusts head is emptyer than our transfer kitty at times

  111. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:23 pm (Edit)

    To be fair Hough – Workys right – you choose which tall tales to regale as fact and ignore ones that dont fit your fettle.

    Youre a fibber of the highest order.

    ===

    Who am I to argue with the master?

  112. Stardust –

    “To be fair Hough – Workys right – you choose which tall tales to regale as fact and ignore ones that dont fit your fettle.

    Youre a fibber of the highest order.”

    I’m going to see Tom Stade on Friday at The Hyena. You’re not on the bill by any chance?? :lol:

  113. LOL Batty at 160

    Worky – can we change Houghs name to “Hough de Payen” or even just “The Fibber”?

  114. stardust have you had ur swineflu vacination today because they give it to the obese and your head alone must weigh 25 stone at least

  115. Great night out at the Hyena BBM. Never seen Tom Stade though. (to be fair I might not remember as its good to have a few to laugh along when youre there.

    Have you noticed the fella sitting in the doorway outside in a sleeping bag, smells, always wants money for a beer – thats Batty.

  116. So just to clarify with the Keegan haters – basically you don’t believe that he was constructively dismissed and that the tribunal got its findings wrong? Ipso Facto you won’t believe he was in the right even if Mike Ashley subsequently comes out and admits everything that happened. There’s no way of proving it to you if you are going to be so closed minded about it. KK may well now be in the past as far as this club goes – and that is a crying shame – but the way his reputation has been trashed by people who have absolutely no idea of what went on is absolutely shameful.

    I think this from True Faith sums up what 99 percent on Newcastle fans feel –

    “Those who accuse him of a love affair with money tend to forget KK could have guaranteed himself a lot more cash than what he ever earned from the FA Panel, simply by going along with the whole Ashley-Llambias-Wise-Jimenez garbage and counting the pay-cheques. KK blew apart the whole rotten core of NUFC under Ashley, his resignation, although forced, clearly rested on a point of principle and demonstrative of an integrity those who throw unjustified slurs against him fail to get at all. We’re all entitled to an opinion but when discussing the affairs of one of the club’s greatest ever servants I think KK is deserving a lot more respect than some of the shite I’ve seen posted on message boards. ”

    Couldn’t have put it better.

  117. worky – Without taking sides for the sake of it, I don’t think Hugh has once bought into the conspiracies about Ashley. He’s just judged him on the horrendous publicly evidenced decisions and statements.

    You can argue some things about Hugh, that daft hat for instance. The fact he’s part southerner ;)

    But not about being disingenuous or unfair.

  118. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:20 pm

    “Actually Rourkes drift was zulu wasnt it lol – what was the place in Lord of the Rings that was similar?”

    Yup. 139 soldiers defended an mission station of the Ashley empire on Barrack Road against a sustained attack from 4/5000 bedsheet waving natives. More VCs were handed out over that than any other time in history. :-)

  119. stardy i havent touched a drop for neary 12 year m8 but if i was still drinking would defo go for a drink with you we would have a rite laugh and if any 1 picked on y ide do them for you :lol:

  120. Actually Worky I feel more like one of the last Spartans – only time before I get a dagger in my back at the match lol.

    BBM – please spell “Hough’s” name correctly.

    London Fife – Kevin Keegan was a good manager first time round – then on this occasion managed to do more harm to this club than any man in history….thats how the history books of NUFC will read unfortunately. (well if I get a chance of writing any anyway lol)

  121. LondonFife – as you say, it’s history but I’ll still remember some of our recent history fondly as long as I live. Keegan is part of that memory. I’ve not championed him since the tribunal but he should be allowed to go now vindicated and guilt-free.

  122. Tom Stade – the American fella who lives over here and points out the peculiarities of British life? He’s pretty good. On the subject of stand-up comics, the peerless Stewart Lee is playing the Tyne Theatre next Month.

  123. Oops forgot about that Batts – anyway – apart from the drink line – I stand by it – you stink lol

  124. Shiver – he’s a maple-tree licking Canadian (his words not mine). He’d have you for the ‘American’ slight!!

    He was at the Gala in Durham three weeks ago and he invited us for a beer afterwards. He managed to be even funnier in conversation.

  125. Londonfife, 99% is a bit strong mate.
    I definitely don’t ‘hate’ kk, i’m just very disappointed in the guy, i expected more of a fight from him.
    That’s the really sad part of all this.
    & i just can’t get all dewy-eyed & romantic about the past.
    Nostalgia was seen as a syndrome in old medical books, treated with cocaine, i might add. :)

  126. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:40 pm
    Oops forgot about that Batts – anyway – apart from the drink line – I stand by it – you stink lol
    <<<<< come over to eds blog so i can swear at y

  127. bowburnmag says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    “worky – Without taking sides for the sake of it, I don’t think Hugh has once bought into the conspiracies about Ashley.”

    Yes, but has he pointed out that in the interests of fairness, they need to be proven as he does with Keegan? As I wrote, fairness works both ways. Both for Keegan and for Ashley.

  128. Oh, he’d hate that then, BBM. It’s akin to accusing a Geordie of being a Mackem! Excuse my ignorance, i’d never heard him refer to either Country and (stupidly) assumed the guy was from the good o’ US of A.

    I’ve seen a few clips on youtube, one regarding people buying meat from a van being a particular highlight.

    He sounds like a decent sort; some comedians wouldn’t dream of associating with us mere paying customers/fans. Fair play to the Canadian comic…

  129. Oh Batty – Iphones are being sold at 02 in the metrocentre for £100 on the 25th of this month – forgot to say.

  130. LondonFife says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:33 pm (Edit)

    So just to clarify with the Keegan haters – basically you don’t believe that he was constructively dismissed and that the tribunal got its findings wrong?

    ===

    Many of the Keegan-haters were never going to change their opinions. Preconceived opinions (and not admitting they were wrong) are often far more precious to people than ‘evidence’ or ‘facts’ or ‘truths’ or ‘new findings’.

    I’m not suggesting that’s not the same for everyone, but in this particular case – given Keegan’s vindication by the tribunal – it’s particularly obvious amongst the Keegan-haters.

  131. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:52 pm
    Do you go down the bookies with ashley batty?
    <<<<< i wish i did clint he defo wouldnt own the club now r i p mike

  132. Keegan wasnt vindicated Hough – he was shown to be a hissy fitter.

    One loan signing
    One clause not fully worded to reflect the situation implemented.

    You sit like a flies sitting on a pile of poo – over the moon they have the food. Others see it for what it is – poo lol.

  133. Just thought you might bump into him now & again, him being a gambling man ‘n all.
    ;)

    Huge, it’s more him walking away, than who ‘won’ the court case mate.
    That disappointment can’t be wiped away by a court decision .

  134. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    “Actually Worky I feel more like one of the last Spartans – only time before I get a dagger in my back at the match lol.”

    That’s Big Al’s lot according to Excelsior. King Al Leonidas is going to chase a naked Ashley and Llambias off a cliff apparently.

  135. batty says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:59 pm

    “whats the best make of laptop for me daughter for aboot 600 quid and ware from any ideas”

    I’ll help you configure one if you wanted batty? You could get quite a tasty one for £600.

  136. Fairydust, I’ll give you Ashley strumpets credit for abject pig-headedness anyway. Despite his increasingly frequent cock-ups, incompetence and obvious disinterest in NUFC, you still fawn over him and defend him until the end.

    It’s amazing really.

  137. batty says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    “worky aye but she wants 1 with a pink top and before you start stardy shut it”

    batty, you’re not going to believe this, but I just helped my brother configure a pink dell laptop for around £600 for my niece.

  138. Batty, stay clear of Dells as they are generally unreliable. I’d go for a Toshiba, as they very rarely break down and are usually reasonably priced. It also depends on what the laptop will be used for most – games, DVDs, internet browsing, office/home work etc.

  139. batty says:
    October 21, 2009 at 10:59 pm
    whats the best make of laptop for me daughter for aboot 600 quid and ware from any ideas

    Batty I will tell you after youve won your next hotpants competition and already bought it.

    Hough – you Fibber – I have gave a counter argument for the position he has held to stop the self perpetuating doom. I do see weaknesses mainly born from terrible communication. I dont see a bad man – he is fallible – like us all. Actually Hough – youre a rotter too.

  140. batty,

    The best thing is to decide what kind of things it’s going to be used for, (eg music, movies or just e.mail and general internet browsing etc) then to configure it, spending the money on the bits that are going to be used.

  141. Worky “batty, you’re not going to believe this, but I just helped my brother configure a pink dell laptop for around £600 for my niece.”

    Workys sussed everyone – its Rodney Trotter lol

  142. right iam off round the back of asda to get a new carboard box then gana get me normal spot ootside the milburn stand before some 1 pitches it speak to yous tomoz

  143. batty says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    “this is how i imagine stardust 5ft6 ginger hair national health specs and coverd in zits”

    batty, do you remember ‘Eddie the Eagle”? ;-)

  144. worky – “Bowburn, In highly polarised disputes, people can rarely accept that you can have a dispute where BOTH sides are wrong.”

    I think I’m capable of doing that.

    Of course it’s easy for me to say, but had the evidence not been so damning I’m fairly certain in my heart of hearts that I would have accepted all parties were in the wrong. I won’t go over old ground as to why I don’t think I need to accept both sides were wrong.

  145. worky – “Bowburn, In highly polarised disputes, people can rarely accept that you can have a dispute where BOTH sides are wrong.”

    By virtue of this logic, Stardust should be able to admit Ashley is a tosser.

  146. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:09 pm (Edit)

    “I have gave a counter argument for the position he has held to stop the self perpetuating doom.”

    I’ve used the same argument myself (as you know). I’m still glad Ashley took the club off Shepherd and I still believe he had the right idea about how things should go on the financial front.

    “I do see weaknesses mainly born from terrible communication.”

    True, although I also think virtually everything else he’s done outside of the points I mention above has been an unmitigated disaster (including the Keegan situation, which was wholly Ashley’s fault IMHO (and the opinion of the tribunal)).

    I genuinely thank him for the few good things he’s done but now I just wish he’d clear off and make way for someone with the finances and wherewithal to do a decent job (although I have no idea where we’re going to find such a person at the moment).

  147. Stardust, as someone who debates are based in fact, logic and objectivity, surely you can just see it for what it is? Put away your hatred and your pre-conceived notions about Keegan. One party was right and one was wrong. The bits and pieces, the emotions and the loyalties etc that make us individuals and form our opinions, are bit-part players to the facts.

  148. BBM – Ashley is human – he makes mistakes – some may see him as a tosser – after his outburst at the weekend I think he doesn’t care anymore what anyone thinks – about bloody time I say!

    I bet he cant believe he had to have it in a contract that he had didnt have the power to spend his own money lol. the worlds gone mad.

  149. Ashley tried to appease the fans by getting kk back-mistake.
    kk let his heart rule his head & came back-mistake.
    Ashley tried to get kk to work under the regime he wanted-mistake.
    kk walked & disappointed all-mistake
    They both took it all the way(over the course of a whole year) to court-mistake.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong & wrong.

  150. “Put away your hatred and your pre-conceived notions about Keegan”

    I dont hate Keegan actually BBM – I felt he let the whole club, city and fans down instead of fighting through it. KK that was once doesnt exist anymore.

    Court rooms – arbitration panels give verdicts – in criminal cases – the balance is beyond reasonable doubt. In civil cases its the balance of probabilities. That in itself can tell you Keegan could have been 49% to blame but still won.

    All is not what it seems in a court room BBM – you can take no satisfaction from this notional victory (a one drummed up by the press) everyone lost in this – remember that.

  151. Stardust – that’s what gets me about your arguments. You simplify it far too much. And I sometimes don’t know whether you’re trying to convince yourself or just being a contrary sonofa…..

    – One loan player.
    – And KK wanted to say how much he could spend and when.

    That’s why you pilloried the outcome.
    It wasn’t like that at all. It’s in black and white. Although white might be black and vice versa when you’re reading it!!!!

  152. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:23 pm (Edit)

    BBM – Ashley is human – he makes mistakes – some may see him as a tosser – after his outburst at the weekend I think he doesn’t care anymore what anyone thinks – about bloody time I say!

    ===

    How come you can’t be so forgiving of Keegan? He’s human too (when not being a Messiah of course). Why is Keegan a ‘yellow coward’ to be despised yet with Ashley it’s ‘about time’ he stops caring what people think?

  153. bowburnmag says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:13 pm

    “worky – “Bowburn, In highly polarised disputes, people can rarely accept that you can have a dispute where BOTH sides are wrong.”

    Well, basically, my opinion after much research for over a year is that both parties went into the Keegan fiasco completely radged. Ashley was completely drunk and wreckless and I wanted to throttle him when he appointed Keegan, because I knew that I’d spend the next nine months going though hell waiting for the inevitable ‘Tyne bomb’ to drop.

    On the other hand, with Keegan, his Soccer Circus is an evangelical vision which means alot more to him than Newcastle United. He’s put absolutely everything he has into it, his whole life. and the ‘third coming’ was just a sideshow. The fans shouldn’t have been deceived by that and be prepared to wreck the club for him, which, along with Ashley and Keegan, they have. ALL sides have been wrong in this dispute.

  154. Hugh – I may say things at times for a reaction.

    But I stand by it – Keegans a coward lol – he was paid 3.0m a year to have broad shoulders – they buckled – he broke down and ran.

    In all honesty I think he has mental health problems – he doesnt conduct himself in a normal manner. (who else in the world always walks out and claims to be in the right 8 times)

  155. Stardust – that’s the point though. I was never smug over the result. I’m still gutted it came to this. One, because of the mess we’re in. Two, because it’s ruined some decent folk’s opinion of KK further.

    My point before was what Hugh is saying. I didn’t mean literally call him a tosser and you hate KK etc. What I mean is, why not the same empathy for Keegan. Just because it’s Ashley’s money, should he get to treat people badly or be dishonest?

  156. 224 – BBM – the verdict was one of the most simple I have read in a long time.

    228 – Hitman – to be fair youre right – it wouldnt even surprise me to see Ashley with his top off belly dancing at the next home match. (but in the away end lol)

  157. BBM – Do I hate Keegan – no far from it – will always be grateful for what he has done for NUFC.

    However I will never support him in this incident – he acted in his own (childish in my opinion) interests and NOT in the interests of the fans, the club and the city. He could have left but made sure the path was prepared and a handover organised – dignified and with integrity.

    I disagree with the dishonest angle – but I have tried to explain that to the death. But we are agreed – there are no winners and all reputations are sullied.

  158. worky – I always maintained that Wise, as much as I ‘ate him (and I do), was also a pawn. Put in the position he was, he did what he was told he could do.

    And your ‘circus theory’ is still a presumptuous opinion. It can’t be anything more? It could be argued it’s borne out of your need to pillory Keegan and justify your previous notions? Maybe you’re not even aware of it? 8O

  159. Good – so we are agreed batty, BBM and Hough – I have been right all along.

    Thank you – I accept your gracious apologies and wish you goodnight lol.

  160. bowburnmag says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:43 pm

    “And your ‘circus theory’ is still a presumptuous opinion.”

    “For the last 10 years I’ve been putting my earnings to one side, paying people to work full time on research and development,” Keegan said. He then added that into Soccer Circus he has put “almost everything we’ve got, me and my family.”

    Bowburn, When I read that from Keegan in September 2008, That’s when I realised what was going on with Keegan and Newcastle. You can’t build the foundations of a club on a man who’s interests are somewhere else.

  161. Stardust says:
    October 21, 2009 at 11:50 pm

    “Good – so we are agreed batty, BBM and Hough – I have been right all along.”

    Nope. I’VE been right all along. :-)

  162. God help me, 239 posts and 99% of them are pointless arguements about things that have happened in the past. Can we please move on from this nonsense.. Who F*cking cares who was/is right or wrong, this horse has well and truly been flogged to death!!One other point – If you type the word FACT at the end of your statements, it doesn’t make it true!!

  163. Stardust
    you are a spiteful and vindictive little man but i understand everyones freedom of speech

    I would like to see ash and all his cronies including you out. if it means one less fan (you) then good.

    it would be a funny irony if keegan went to teeside and got them promotion ahead of us.

    again 1.5 mill as ashley was wrong and keegan was right.

    but just so i read stardust right what he is saying is anyone who say has a certain job but is then told to do something different from what his contract reads should stick around because if he walked he s a coward.
    example – you drive a lorry for a living but then told your new duties include cleaning the toilets well you should stick it out like a man.

    Get real

    Gordon Brown should put you in a an employment consultant with a thinking like that.

  164. Just a quick point: If all Mike Ashley is guilty of are simple “errors of judgement” then why did KK win his case?

    If he’s a good man struggling to do what’s right, why deliberately lie to the fans?

    Why make repeated attempts to buy off Keegan in return for his silence?

    Could it be that “Poor, good hearted, put-upon Mike” did not want the tribunal to lift up the scummy rock, that is his regime, and shine a light of truth into it’s fetid, morbid darkness!

    In short, Stardust, if he is all the things you say he is, then why is DECIET his fall back position?

  165. Aussie Magpie Fan – what were you expecting on this particular article? :)

    Tis an emotive subject for the residents of the blog!

    But aye, let’s move on.

  166. A magnificent effort at obfuscation at 223 Stardust – but you know as well as anyone that that doesn’t wash. You say –

    “Court rooms – arbitration panels give verdicts – in criminal cases – the balance is beyond reasonable doubt. In civil cases its the balance of probabilities. That in itself can tell you Keegan could have been 49% to blame but still won.”

    The tribunal says

    5. Fourthly, we direct that the Club should pay Mr Keegan’s costs on an indemnity basis given the manner in which it conducted this litigation: its defence on the primary liability issue was, in our view, wholly without merit and it chose to make entirely unfounded allegations against Mr Keegan.

    Hmmmm – not quite sure where the 49 percent Keegan liability can be discerned from that!

  167. Excelsior – your obviously an intelligent bloke – if so why cant you see “why deliberately lie to the fans?” is a nonsense?

  168. Stardust- Thanks for the vote of confidence; there’s nothing wrong with my vision.

    You’re obviously so hostage to the sound of your own voice that you dismiss all other voices as ignorance.

    The tribunal statement was unequivocal, precise, clear in it’s assertion of Keegan’s right and Ashley’s wrong. Your feeble attempts at misdirection are getting quite comical.

    Ashley called his LIES a “PR exercise”! I may not be a “hotshot lawyer”, like yourself, but I’ve worked with plenty of “PR” people. They use their facility for bulls**t to sail as close to the edge of legal as they can, and not be caught out. The telling of outright lies though is frowned upon, even by them.

    If you cannot admit that your assessment of the situation is wrong then, simply, stop yammering on about it!

  169. Hugh de Payen says:
    October 22, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    “Definitely Feargal, although with The Undertones rather than on his own.”

    One of my friends did an album with Feargal Sharkey, he’s one of the biggest, most conceited arseholes in the world apparently.

  170. Possibly Worky, but I thought The Undertones were fantastic. I regret never seeing them in concert.

  171. Excelsior

    Nice to see you have to reduce your argument down to a personal level before letting your side hold its own ground.

    “Ashley called his LIES a “PR exercise”” – the tribunal never accepted they were lies in the first place! They chose to believe the statements released tot he fans were truths – and that that was the the real position – hence KKs win (plus a few other points)

    The tribunal more or less said they were trying to hoodwink the panel and they had not being lying to the fans.

    So before firing lines with gravity – check your thoughts are on a firm footing and in fact you arent on quicksand and up to your neck and sinking fast.

    I thought better of you…..the ability to write does obviously not correlate with a refined thought process.

  172. Old ground, new day!!! 8)

    They were lying or they were lying about lying.

    Neither looks pretty when written down or endearing when said out aloud.

  173. So anyway, “sail it up, sail it up, sail it up…..”

    Or maybe that should be same tune but a slight change to the lyrics.

    Sell it up, sell it up, sell it up…….

  174. Still of the opinion, this is not a pissing contest Workey?
    It gets sillier more repetitive by the post.
    Enough already, call it a day guys.

  175. Chuck – I apologise if it sounds that way – but its far from it. I believe that the fans can be a destructive element at the club – tearing down the walls – looking for reasons to hate and reaffirm their hate. To some who Ashley is now a liar – but it is obtuse to interpret the verdict that way – or even the wording that way without putting it into its relevant context – it shows a lack of understanding.

    Thats why I am vociferous – hate the man for something he has done not for their own ignorance. The hate has dragged NUFC down far enough – it has to stop.

  176. Stardust

    Lets examine KK’s alledged tendancy for walking away!!

    NUFC (First Time) Keegan left because Hall was interfering with first team affairs and this went totally against the grain with him, and undermined him.

    Man City Keegan was 2 years into a 3 year deal, they wanted to negotiate an extension to that and he didnt he wanted to honour his 3 years then leave, it was decided by mutual consent that he should go, lest it affect the dressing room!

    Fulham He left with Fulham’s blessing for the England job, who Wouldn’t!!

    England As much as I like and admire KK he isn’t an international class manager and he realised this, so rather than hang in there and go down in flames and be sacked (but receive a massive payoff , ie Taylor, Sven, Mclaren) he said I’m out of my depth I’ll go now and you can get someone in who can get you through.

    NUFC (second Time) Objects to the signing of a “financial” !! They sign him anyway, subsequent meetings with Ash and his crew and they hand him a letter refusing to rule out more “financials” over his head, that is unacceptable to ME never mind KK. These financials seem to me from an untrained eye to be the new way Agents get their Bungs (alledgedly) and I for one want NUFC to have no part of it and would welcome a Premier League investigation into the process.

    So lets get away from KK hasn’t got the bottle or the BAckbone for Football management, he’s got more integrity and heart for the Job than anyone.

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