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Newcastle no longer own St James’ Park.

Posted on June 2nd, 2010 | 230 Comments |

Bank owned @ St James' Park?
Bank owned @ St James' Park?
Things never run smoothly at Newcastle do they? Come on, you can admit it, it’s ok. And some interesting revelations today have ensured that the tradition unfortunately continues.

The Guardian have managed to track down some of the inner workings of what is going on behind the iron curtain, with the focus yet again being on the financial side of the club.

In quite stunning fashion, The Guardian have revealed that Newcastle no longer own St James’ Park, or the training ground, or the youth academy. They have also revealed that all the money owed to us from the sale of players such as James Milner and Obafemi Martins has already been borrowed against and is due to be repaid as and when we recieve it.

I’m struggling to make sense of it all as the numbers just don’t add up. One side of me is wondering just how The Guardian managed to get hold of such figures, bearing in mind that the accounts for that period are yet to be filed. Whilst the other side of me thinks that there could be some truth in all of this as The Guardian, aside from one very serious recent slip up, is generally a paper that can be believed.

If you want to read the article yourself, then please do so here, or alternatively you can stick with me and I will try to rattle through it.

Basically, it all apparently stems from relegation. As of the 30th June 2009, Newcastle had an overdraft of £47.87 million, which is a staggering amount. Whilst this amount is deemed acceptable for a team that has a Premier League income, unfortunately that is something we couldn’t guarantee in the season just passed. As a result the bank decided that having such a sum unsecured was too much of a risk.

On the 1st July 2009, Barclays took steps to reduce the risk they faced by registering a mortgage on St James’ Park, the training ground, and the youth academy. Not only that, our brand name was also taken into consideration, aswell as any trade secrets, although god knows what they are! So from where I am sitting, and according to The Guardian, by having a mortgage it is actually Barclays bank that owns most our assets, including St James’ Park, although technically we don’t own the land, but the buildings on it we do…. or did.

It gets worse…

In October 2009, Newcastle acquired a secured loan based on the income of player sales that was yet to be paid. This includes payments for James Milner, Obafemi Martins that were due into the club and, I hoped, would have been money already earmarked for transfers. Apparently not…

As I said earlier, I really don’t know what to make of this, and the sums just don’t add up. Is it more press scare-mongering? Or is there actually some truth in these revelations? I think what this needs is some clarificati….. oh wait, we wont get that will we?

In all seriousness, if this is true then it is an awful blow on our return to the Premier League. I must stress though that there is nothing about this ‘mortgage’ on St James’ Park or the training ground being repaid. For all we know it may have already been paid, or there could be plans afoot to pay it back, or the story could be pure fabrication. Who knows?

Unfortunately, Mike Ashley has backed himself into a corner on this one. Something like this needs to be categorically denied as it has the risk to become a very serious issue with fans, very very quickly. And with the current “no comment” policy, I don’t expect a denial to be forthcoming.

Granted we have been told to ignore what is read in the papers, but when it is something as potentially serious as this then it has to be given the light of day. St James’ Park is a sacred place, and revelations like this will not sit well with the fans, unless they are nipped in the bud and denied quite quickly.

If this turns out to be true then you have to ask, where has all the money gone? I know relegation costs, but has it cost us the ultimate possesion? Managers and players come and go, St James’ Park doesn’t, it is THE constant.

Have we paid the ultimate price for relegation?

NUFCBlog Author: toonsy toonsy has written 643 articles on this blog.

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230 Responses

  1. Sorta odd that all of this is just now coming to light. All of the dates you mention are from 2009. Why was none of this getting aired out whilst we were in the fizzy pop? Perhaps it’s true. Let’s hope it’s not. I do miss the focus on the football that we seemed to have, for the most part, last season, though I suppose there was loads of controversy surround the club around this time last year (and right through that dreadful display at Leyton-Orient). When it comes to football, I hate this time of year.

  2. Don’t believe it, or just don’t want to believe it, if this was true why would Ashley use his own money for the running costs of the club? It would make more sense for Ashley to pay the overdraft himself instead of mortgaging assets. Things have been good this season and the media don’t want us to enjoy it, first they label us rascist now they want us to cause unrest again. Yes it’s just my opinion but I’m not biting until something is clarified.

  3. Using the same play on words, Man U dont own Old Trafford then and as most clubs have money borrowed from one source or another, most grounds will be owned by someone other than the club.
    Its hardly a scoop to be reporting these facts if true, more likely to be retaliation following the criticism over their mistake in publishing the incorrect article last week about Andy Cole, or an attempt to flush Ashley out of his corner.
    Either way, the clubs stance on no comment and banning the press is only going to give the press a free hand to pan us at every opportunity.

  4. A good inquisitive article that surely will have threads of the reality!

    Where’s the money gone it asks?

    How about stating the list with
    a) paying a massive wage bill

    b) buying the likes of Collo, Jonas Gonzalis (who appears to be in the Uruguay squad)

    c) wages and pay off costs for Dennis Wise and his two sidekicks

    d) Allardyce and Keegan pay off costs etc etc

    ……. and bear in mind that revenues from sponsorship, TV and season ticket sales had been hocked by the previous junta and before MA arrived.

    Ho hum…. perhaps that puts the no cap spend on players into context?

  5. Well, well, well.

    St Mike trying to pull a fast one.

    I asked this question a while ago so I’ll ask it again – What’s the point in having a multi millionaire owning the club if were being run like this?

    This doesn’t suprise me, it should but it doesn’t.

    So after this latest revelation, are we all agreed that it’s unlikey there’ll be one penny spent this season on incoming players?

    I remember FFS getting all kind of Freud for borrowing against future income – Funny how rhings turn out, isn’t it?

  6. Might be rubbish, might be slightly wide of the mark, might also explain the new ‘no comment’ policy. How best to avoid a difficult explanation?

  7. You kind of have to laugh at Ashleys all round incompetance, The Chris Mort swipes about how the club was run financially under Shepherd were not unjust but people in glass houses and all that.

    Quite how this man became head of the contries biggest sportswear chain and a multi billionaire is remarkable.

  8. The miscreants across the water are having a fair old chuckle at this by the way, judging by the ‘referrers’ to the site. This sort of stuff is comedy gold to them and is balm to the sting of those smarting from Bent’s omission from the England squad.

    Hopefully an announcement to quash the rumours will be forthcoming.

  9. Don’t hold your breath Bowburn… the rumour quasher’ll be a long time coming!

    The absence of PR and spin begs the question…..Where’s the club’s newly recruited equivalent of Alistaire Campbell then? Lost for words is she?

  10. maybe the secured loan they are talking about is the 20 million ashley put into the club on 27 October 2009 when he took the club off the market, and he wants it back.

    club released a statement at the time “Mike Ashley is totally committed to the future success of Newcastle United and will be focused on gaining promotion back to the Premier League. Mike will put a further £20m into the club this week.”

    probably all lies, like…….

  11. lesh says:
    June 2, 2010 at 9:14 am

    She’s probably busy writing her resignation letter.

  12. Stuart, there’s one thing for sure…. if Ms Spin is still with us, she’ll have her work cut out and as time goes by, develop a nose like Pinnochio!

  13. lies lies and more lies from ashley,if hes mortgage everything at the club,how much money has he really put into the club,he says he was putting in 20 mill out of his own pocket,is this still the case,im no finance man.where the fk is stardust when hes needed :wink:

  14. securing the overdraft against st. james’ was probably at the insistence of barclays, a temporary measure whilst we were in the championship.

  15. I suspect there’s quite a bit of truth in this article & the information can only have come from inside the club or barclays & theres little chance it was the bank.
    After relegation the bank will have looked for security & the only real assets we have are the ground etc, so its thats not really supprising. Over the last 2 seasons we have lost nearly £70 mil & reduced the overdraft by £25 mil thats nearly £95 mil. Even with the £20 mil from MA we are still in hock for £70 + million. Probably explains why its going to take 5 years to break even.

  16. Ah ah! The penny’s dropping….

    The club’s broke, skint, borassic and it needs lots of patience, understnding, support and tlc to get it back to near fitness.

    That is where our magnificent fans come in….. yes?

  17. The club have a mortgage or a secured loan on the ground and other property. Gee whizz wheres the drama exactly?

    It’s just like you don’t own your home due to your mortgage.

    Papers trying to cause problems where there aren’t any, as usual.

  18. So were now in a worse financial state than we ever were under FFS.

    Sounds like our total debt stands at something like £150m!

    So again – What’s the point in Mike Ashley? If we go down again we’ll be in the shit big style! It’s not a given that we’ll stay up.

  19. aye lesh, seems that way. relegation has cost us dear. gonna be tough next season, still got a squad capable though, yeah?

  20. BLC says:
    June 2, 2010 at 10:23 am

    I don’t recall any other club with an extremely wealthy owner having to do the same?

    It’s no different to what Sir John Hall or FFS did, yet they got castergated for it!

  21. malchick says:
    June 2, 2010 at 10:25 am
    aye lesh, seems that way. relegation has cost us dear. gonna be tough next season, still got a squad capable though, yeah?

    As of today, yes. But what about Sept 1st, when everyone lese has stengthened and we haven’t? Will we still have a strong enough squad?

  22. “If we go down again we’ll be in the shit big style! It’s not a given that we’ll stay up.”

    forever the optimist, stu.

  23. Agreed Malchick and let’s hope we’ve a squad that’s strong enough to get us through the season without too much pain.

    Prem survival will be success and should be regarded as a low step on the ladder to improvement and growth.

  24. How about we Mike Ashley a break? If it wasn’t for him then Newcastle United might wellhave gone into administration last season. If money coming into the club is going to service the debts then fair enough.

    I’m interested to see how well CH does with out any money.

  25. I would be wary about this story. Who is going to tell the Guardian this sort of information when the statement said nobody would be telling the press anything?

  26. “As of today, yes. But what about Sept 1st, when everyone lese has stengthened and we haven’t? Will we still have a strong enough squad?”

    aye stu, you’re probably right. what can we do except get behind the team?

  27. We don;t have a wealthy owner, or haven’t you noticed.

    Arsenal have a huge stadium loan, as do a number of other clubs, I’m sure.

    The club had a big mortgage before Mike Ashley came so its no different. He paid that off which meant the mortgage went, because of the relegation and the need for an overdraft the bank have asked for it back.

    There’s no story here that we already didn’t know. The bank won’t give out loans and overdrafts without security to any club.

  28. BLC says:
    June 2, 2010 at 10:35 am
    We don;t have a wealthy owner, or haven’t you noticed.

    ashley has almost a billion quid in the bank,to me that makes him a wealthy owner..

  29. “Prem survival will be success and should be regarded as a low step on the ladder to improvement and growth.”

    wise words, lesh.

  30. Whatever way you look at it, it’s a gamble.

    No fcking wonder nobody wants to buy us.

    The club was in a hell of a state pre Ashley but someone bought it – It’s in a worse state now and nobody will buy it.

    Ashley has done exactly what he slagged FFS off for doing.

    He’s spent future earnings ie season ticket money and he’s mortgaged the stadium, academy and training ground, not to mention the rights ect…

    Wonder if Chris Mort will slag Ashley off.

  31. here we go again,coming into a new season and more upheaval suprise,suprise.all we need now is a cillagram.

  32. this makes no sense as we appear to be in more debt than when freddy had us BUT at the same time have invested no money in any players and have seen the tv money double since freddy left. It is obvious that shit head is truly taking as much money out of nufc as he possibly can and everything is a lie. they said we had no debt other than the money taken interest free from ashely so many times.
    Toonsy, you have to agree that our club is ran by a bunch of casino wnakers.

  33. Of course we OWN the ground.

    If you had a house worth £100k and a took a mortgage of £20k, would the bank then own the house?

    These assets are SECURITY, there has been no transfer of ownership.

    This article is nonsense.

  34. stu, maybe the loan they’re talking about is money which ashley himself put into the club post-relegation, money which was needed to run the club in the championship, to buy players in january which helped gain promotion. if that is the case then it’s a far cry from spending future tv and sponsorship earnings, a la shepherd.

    maybe it wasn’t like, but gotta keep things in perspective.

  35. “they said we had no debt other than the money taken interest free from ashely so many times”

    craig, the guardian doesn’t state when the loan came from. maybe it is interest free from ashley therefore nothing has changed. maybe there is no story there.

  36. I can’t believe how surprised people are acting about this like they didn’t know what was happening.

    I’ll break it down for you.

    *We got relegated.

    *We sold players to help cover the loss of income while in the championship.

    *This money won’t be paid straight away but over a few years.

    *We go to Barclays to extend the overdraft to make up the short fall in cash for the year.

    *They want something in collateral to safeguard their money.

    *When we get paid out on the players we’ve sold, that goes straight to reducing the overdraft so SJP is no longer collateral anymore.

    There’s no big scandal here and the only risk is if one of the clubs we sold players too goes bust, we’ve got the money but not in hand so we have to borrow while the cash gets to us.

  37. The only way that ashley is ever going to get his money back is to turn the finances round so that he can either sell us or make sure that we are in a position to pay him back. To do either we have to be in the premier league (although the new relegation parachute payments will give extra security) one way or another the squad will have to be strengthened but I’m not expecting many new faces, with 2/3 good players we should be capable of staying up & might even suprise a few people if Chris & the current players can rise to the challenge.

  38. Rangerman says:
    June 2, 2010 at 11:01 am

    First of all, I thought that was why we had a very wealthy owner?

    Also, why were we paying cash, up front for players but selling players on tick? That creates this very problem with cash flow.

    I’m not sure you can come on here and start spouting off about the clubs finances. You have already said on numberous occasions that the club would be in profit next season – Well that looks like a silly statement doesn’t it?

  39. The Guardian are full of rubbish. Probably mackem Louise Taylor trying to spil our success. Typical London press – think they’re the centre of the world but everyone outside of London hates them because they think we’re a bunch of idiots who will believe any rubbish they print. Remember this is the same paper that recently printed that Newcastle fans staged a racist protest when the club signed Andy Cole.

  40. Oh what a day, maybe Ashley doesn’t want his £111m back anytime soon because he’s already got it by taking outthese mortgages :(

    If & it’s a bug if this story is true, then we are literally in deep devt, not only to Ashley but to the banks too, so forget anyone coming to buy us, no one is that stupid & we are stuck with Ashley & his 5 year plan to get us out of debt!!!

  41. Hitman @44, I agree to a degree but without MA, the club’d have gone pop a couple of years ago. Better to be in the top flight than out.

    Stuart @ 45….. Ashley hasn’t spent future earnings ie season ticket money and mortgaged the stadium, academy and training ground, not to mention the rights ect!

    The bank demanded security against the overdraft used to pay the clubs running costs during both the playing and the close season, when there’s no revenue stream.

    It’s nothing sinister I’m sure and MA’s no fool when it comes to money.

    For crying out loud ye doom-mongers, stop building the hype up towards fan discontent before we even kick a ball!

  42. You obviously thought wrong if you thought having a wealthy owner meant he was going to spend millions.

    As for paying up front, the only reason I can think the club are doing it is to get a better deal as clubs will want the cash, this hasn’t created the problem though.

    The club will be in profit next season when it comes to operating costs but whatever we’ve got left over is going to be used to reduce the overdraft because of the shortfall last season.

  43. reading it again there’s very little to get alarmed about. when we got relegated barclays insisted nufc secured the overdraft. ashley tried to sell the club and failed and loaned the club a further 20 million on 27th October as released in a club statement. it’s hardly earth-shattering news.

  44. lesh says:
    June 2, 2010 at 11:15 am

    So what’s happened to the money from the thousands of people who bought a three year season ticket 2 years ago?

    Has he put that in the bank for a rainy day? I think it’s probably been spent. That is spending future earnings. Our season ticket revenue for the next couple of years will reduced because some supporters bought three years in advance.

  45. ashleys wheeling and dealings are slowly coming to light, it appears nothng is what it seems and infact, we could be even more debt ridden than when ff had us. the difference being that ashley has sold off all our assets, invested zero in players, had far more money at his dispoasal from a huge increase in tv rights etc, and dragged our name through so much dirt none stop for three years with one scandal and fcuk up after another. Lied to us, took us down to ccc and has sold off the stadium, turned into .com. tried to sell us three times – that we know of. been through a tribunal admitting he lies to us all the time to shut us up, my god, the list goes on forever. I feel sure that nufc will respond to this statement and attemopt to clarify it… and end up creating even further chaos amongst fans and media.

  46. Craig @ 47, we have lost nearly £70 mil over the last 2 seasons & those losses have to be covered. I’m not defending ashley & think many of our troubles can be blamed on him but we’ve been living beyond our means for quite a while.

  47. the thing is if ashley is always loaning us money he can always say we are running at a loss and will always take all the revenue that comes in. Thus he can say its servicing debts but in fact its just all going to ashley. what a very dodgy man we have as our owner.

  48. So the bank wanted the overdraft reducing – We knew that.

    We were deep into the overdraft facility which meant we had no cash to reduce it – We knew that.

    So the bank have done what ALL normal bankers do – Converted the overdraft / part of the overdraft into a loan which is secured against the business assets.

    Once the loan is repaid the security is released and all is back to normal.

    There is no cause for concern at all, we already knew we were skint, and before Mr Chisolm harps on about our pending profits of £80mil it is just so far from being true that its laughable. Our turnover alone wont be much bigger than £80mil.

  49. Nobody has pointed out yet that the club have already reduced the overdraft to £20 million.

  50. craig chisholm says:
    June 2, 2010 at 11:24 am
    the thing is if ashley is always loaning us money he can always say we are running at a loss and will always take all the revenue that comes in. Thus he can say its servicing debts but in fact its just all going to ashley. what a very dodgy man we have as our owner.

    Matey – You do realise that we actually have fully audited accounts every year? Ashley cant just take money and ‘say we are running at a loss’ – We are running at a massive loss and have been for years.

    He has had access to far less money that Shepherd, turnover is well down and the wage bill was well up.

    Sponsorships and shirt deal are well down, the cash from the previous deals was well gone before Ashley even arrived.

    Ashley has essentially got the thick end of £300mil of his personal wealth tied up in NUFC and I dont blame him at all for wanting to sort the finances out so that one day, he may be able to have it back.

    I totally disagree with the way he goes about things, it borders on lunacy at times, but I can fully understand his end goal.

  51. Stuart…. season ticket money from two years ago has been treated as revenue to pay a disproportionately high wage bill and go some way to maintaining the club in the CCL (with that high wage bill) and getting us out of it and into the Prem, as Champions, first go!

    Look at the club as though you were it…. what you don’t have, you can’t spend…. unless you borrow from the bank which will ask for securiites – possibly on an owned property (like SJP for example?)

  52. Why worry about any of the finances, profit and loss are for Ashley to solely concern himself with, the fans dont own the club, he does.
    Its pointless getting your knickers in a bunch about what he is doing as he can basically do as he pleases, good or bad.

  53. BBB 67….. you’ve hit the nail right on the head and posters are getting worked up and potentially making trouble for the season to come.

    Take it easy, relax and things can only get better.

    Tranquillo, tómelo con calma, relajarse y apoyar la causa – podría disfrutar de la experiencia, kolay,

    rahat ve neden destek götürün –

    Sen deneyiminin keyfine olabilir,

    denken einfach, entspannen und die Unterstützung der Ursache – vielleicht die Erfahrung zu genießen

  54. GASH, ABSOLUTE GASH!

    Not the story, which I would assume for the most it’s true, but some of the bigoted crap some people put on here and try to convince others (and themselves) that its gospel is pathetic. All it takes is one story spun in a negative way and the boring little cretins from middle earth show their ugly faces once more, Ashley out, he’s a thief, FFS was better, YAWN, boring.

    I think the majority of the story is true, if maybe a little inaccurate, but for the majority, factual. One main reason for this is that it’s reasonable and actually commonly done! With such huge debts of course the banks are going to wants some security on their loan which makes more sense of our ‘5 year plan’. I dont have a problem with it, give it a couple of years – in the Prem fingers crossed – and the over draft will be reduced and things will be back to normal. THERE IS NO BIG ISSUE.

    The way the club is being run is the right and the common sense way of doing it, and will go to ensure we have a club to support in the future, which if left in the hands of the previous owners, may not even be here!

  55. Lesh @ 68……. What b******t I post!

    Now there’s an invite to divert the moans, if ever there was one!!!!

  56. Well i think its not true because the council own the stadium and lease it to the club….that was revealed when the whole renaming thing came out.

  57. @69… 10/10 for I Love Mike – a few more common sense words. It is 2010 and debt is the way of the world – it’s an industry in itself.

    Bobby Thompson bless him, 5 ft tall in his boots, up to his eyes in debt and….. wishing he was a foot taller!!!! Classic!

  58. And what do people expect loans to be secured against? We were screwed with money and needed the bank to help, so whats the problem. We still have it as long as we pay off the money.

    Do you consider that the bank owns your house? No!

    So stop whining and every little thing that Ashley does just for the sake of it.

  59. Guardian’s revenge, hey?

    If ever there was a good reason to boycott their shoddy,
    vengeful, ass-wipe, rag……………..
    ……………….This is it!

  60. To try to cover off a few points here:

    1) Ashley created a lot of this financial mess himself by agreeing large contracts to players when he first took over & also he sanctioned the signings of Colo & Xisco on very high wages a year after he saw the books – where was his grand cost reduction plan in action then ??

    2) The three year deal for season tickets had the same net effect on the club as Shepherd’s borrowing against future ticket sales. Ashley just took the money from the fans in the first year & probably spent it (I know some have direct debit paying installments), but that reduced income in years 2 & 3.

    3) Of course the bank will want security on the loan – that is very sensible for them. It also seems true that the overdraft has been reduced to £20m. However, that figure could now exclude the money that has in effect been converted to a secured loan – it doesn’t necessarily mean the amount owed to the bank has reduced.

    4) Selling players on installment basis & buying with cash upfront is bound to lead to problems & restrict transfer budget – we didn’t even negotiate sell on clauses.

    5)Our income is severely restricted – even the new sponsorship deals are pathetic by comparison to those for clubs at the top end of the premiership. I’m led to believe we cannot drive up income via increased merchandising & refeshments sales as we have contracted out those elements

    6) Ashley owns the club & can do what he wants – but those of us that go to the games pay a significant proportion of the clubs income – by choice. Are we not entitled to express our feelings?

    7) If I were Ashley, I would be going on an all out charm offensive to woo back fans & get them to support the club & spend their money…..yet all we get are crass badly worded & confusing statements

    To me, something just does not feel right about the club….I just don’t the feeling that Ashley & Llambias respect the club & the fans.

    Trust is a very hard thing to get back when its been broken.

  61. Final part of my three post rant….

    When you become billions, then surely you can express opinions on Ashleys financial dealings.

    Im not an Ashely fan, hes an arrogant fat bastard, it just annoys me when a fuss is kicked up over nothing, just for the sake of it, like moaning about spending season ticket money too early blah blah blah.

    I swear a feel good factor around the place at the moment is just too normal for some people.

  62. Sal… first of all … wind ya neck in having a go at me… i dont even know you so back off. i am happy for you to explain to me where i am going wrong on this profit that i seem to think we will have. I honestly mean that too. Please correct me on my following mistakes :

    we made a 32.5 million loss last season in the ccc. – which is less loss than we made in the prem!!

    Getting promoted made 60 million extra funds given to us from prem for this next season.

    We have our new NR deal starting this next season at 7 million a year (i think, but may be wrong). Previous NR money was all spenr on owen.

    13 million coming in from previous sales – regardless if this is promised or not elsewhere, it is still money coming in.

    high earning players have left systematically during the last 12 months such as butt, geremi etc. Our player outgoings are far less now than this time last year.

    we have two more minor sponsor deals in place also in last 6 months.

    just taking the figures we know of, which is 60 + 7 + 13 = 80 million… then deduct 32.5 million which was our loss was without this extra revenue and i arrive at a conservative profit of 45 million +.

    Granted, we then pay off debts etc… but that is ashleys choice and in doing debt reduction until we have no coffers left to spend on players and does not mean we are not turning a p[rofit. I really cant grasp it. sorry.

  63. Mike Ashley will deliberately bleed your club dry and then destroy you by liquidating the club when it suits him to do so because of the evil and thoughtless way you lot treat him.
    Its your own fault really.

  64. Craig…..

    Im pretty sure the 60million figure is a headline grabbing estimate of earnings over a period of time, like continuing seasons, parachute payments for relegation next season etc.

    Its not “you’re up, here’s 60 million.”

    Hence why newly promoted teams never spend anything near 60 million.

  65. Ate, running costs and ‘other’ costs were at £35 million last time we were in the prem.

    Plus the new NR deal is worth £2.5 mill a year, but it will only pay if we stay up.

  66. Hitman

    True, the club could easily of released a statement cleared this story up but on the bright side we can now see who Danny Simpson thinks will win the world cup…

  67. toonsy,
    i meant,
    running costs + £30 odd m debt.
    In reply to craigs profit margin thing.

  68. Clint Flick

    hes saying we lost 30 million based on last seasons costs and income+ getting an extra 60 million from what we already had, so his logic is correct.

    Just utter twaddle what hes saying though about getting all this extra money.

  69. There’s a lot of rubbish in these posts. Basically:-

    1. The council own the ground, everyone’s known that for years (at least back to when John Hall was in charge and developed it in the mid 90s) so NUFC could not mortgage the ground. That bit at least, is not true.

    2. Even if they had mortgaged it, so what? A mortgage is a sensible step for any business or person – especially if it is in massive debt. I earn a lot of money but have a large mortgage.

    3. We have spent beyond our means for years and the debt must be paid back. Ashley is not taking back his loans, he has already confirmed this, so it is not a case of him putting the money in his own pocket.

    4. We did not suddenly get a cheque for £60m when we got promoted. This estimate (note estimate not fact) is based on earnings over a period of time.

    5. Craig @ 77 – you have ommitted operating costs from your figures (eg the £40-50m wageroll and the millions it must cost to keep the ground and training ground running).

    Why don’t we just give them a break and let them run the club? It’s in our joint interests for them to succeed, so we don’t we try and overlook some of the past mistakes and get behind the team and the club.

  70. Paul thats literally what ive been saying but stretched out over 5 posts ;).

    Except no5….he has considered running costs, because he said we made a 30 million loss based on last seasons costs and turnover.

    Then hes taken that and said so from last seasons costs and income we lost 30 million, but this season we are getting income x and income y and added it to that.

    Not saying hes correct with his figures though….

  71. I wasnt having a pop, sorry if it appeared that way.

    The £60mil figure is overhyped bulls&*T from the press. It is an estimate of POTENTIAL income over I reckon 4 years (because that is reportedly how many years relegated clubs are supported).

    If you look at our turnover from the last time we were in the PL, it was £80mil(ish) all in – That includes all sponsorships etc regardless of when the actual cash was received (or in our case spent).

    We have now got lesser sponsorship deals than before, although TV money has reportedly risen sharply. With our reduced wage bill it may be that we can indeed turn a profit tthis coming year, or if not then next year (assuming Ashleys cost cutting dont relegate us again), however that profit will be closer to £10mil than £60mil.

    Bear in mind that since the £111 mil loan figures were reported, Ashley has again put in another £25mil or so, the banks want repaying etc etc.

    The cashflows just arent there for us to spend as well as reduce the debt to Ashley & the banks. He reckons he isnt going to take his loan back (yet) so maybe we are looking at surviving for one season on a shoe string, then pushing on next season??

    The only person that knows what next years plan is, is Ashley himself.

    The bloke is a c*&t, but he does have around 30% of his reported worth tied up in our club, therefore I can understand him refusing to let it go lightly – I know I wouldnt.

  72. hitman says:
    June 2, 2010 at 1:13 pm
    see some nut has went on a shooting spree owa at whitehaven..

    Well, it wasn’t me!

  73. The council own the land, not the football stadium. The football club lease the ground from the council on a long term lease.

    Many people have mortgages on leasehold terms…….so of course the club can mortgage the ground

  74. Apparantly its a bloke with shaved hair driving a picasso, Has Barton been down the barbers recently

  75. “lies lies and more lies from ashley,if hes mortgage everything at the club,how much money has he really put into the club,he says he was putting in 20 mill out of his own pocket,is this still the case,im no finance man.where the fk is stardust when hes needed :wink:”

    It seems pretty clear that Ashley put feck all into the club last season and morgaged the assets to cover losses.

    And to all those saying dont beleive the papers, … I have far more faith in a bullsh!t press than a bullsh!ting Ashley.

    He is sucking money out of the club, and once he has taken back some of his orginal investment to buy, he will cut his loses and put the club into administration. Because he just doesn’t give a sh!t.

    There is no way on earth… with the club having spent a net sum of stuff all on transfers in two years. Then received parachute payments. Almost halved the wage bill and sold our best players as well as the new television money and sponsors that we should be losing this much money…

    What Ashley is doing is BLATANT ASSET STRIPPING!!!

    It is a disgrace!

  76. All his lies, you may as well add the lie about his INTEREST FREE LOANS, HIS MONEY HE’S PUT IN TO KEEP US AFLOAT, everything that comes out his mouth is a complete and utter lie…

    Absolute pig of a man… I’d rather support a Newcastle in the third division than have someone like him as an owner!

  77. Players in:
    Xisco 6Mil
    Coloccini 9Mil
    Bassong 1Mil
    Jonas Guiterrez 5Mil
    Guthrie 2.5Mil
    Nolan 4Mil
    Ryan Taylor 2Mil
    Simpson 1.5Mil
    Routeledge 1.5Mil
    Williamson 1.5Mil
    Best 500k
    Rest are free signings
    Total amount spent under Ashley: About 35Mil spent

    Players out:
    Rozenhal 2.9Mil
    Emre 3Mil
    Abdoulaye Faye 2.5Mil
    Milner 12Mil
    Shay Given 8Mil
    NZogbia 7Mil
    Oba Martins 9Mil
    Bassong 8Mil
    Habib Beye 1.5Mil
    Damien Duff 4Mil

    TOTAL AMOUNT SOLD SINCE ASHLEY: about 60Mil received…

    Plus no more wages of: Owen, Viduka, Geremi, Butt, etc…

    So a positive suplus of about 25Mil since Ashley arrived.

    The club now spends about 25Mil a year less on wages.

    That along adds up to 50Mil over the two years. Plus the parachute payment of 12Mil.

    How on earth did we get in so much financial trouble if Ashley really did put in further loans (for instance the 20Mil he had to put in last year to keep us afloat)…

    He is lying, and he is pocketing, tranfers fee, parachute payments and sponsorship money, and now television money. And that is why we as a club are in such a financial mess!!!

  78. we havent owned SJP for years! its always been owned by the council and newcastle just loan it out from them! we are just a tenant of the stadium

  79. But it is interest free loans.

    We have lost that much money.

    He has put in £111mil (to June 09) on top of buying the club for £134mil.

    Its all fact.

  80. 100 – We don’t own the land, the council own that. But we do own the buildings which are built on it.

    Basically the people that say we can’t mortgage the ground because the council own the ground are, well, wrong.

    Using that logic, nobody would be able to purchase a flat with a mortgage as that one flat doesn’t own all the land that the block is built on. Or am I missing something?

  81. Sal…

    All the losses, less sales of merchandise, relegation costs, and on and on are a direct result of poor managment by Ashley. Yet… he continues to pocket income and put the expenditure on the clubs books. There is no other way the club can be losing that much money!

    He is clearly asset stripping… and anyone who doesn’t see that is blind or stupid!

  82. On the positive side, even if we don’t buy a single player and we only sell say Xisco. It’ll be a step in the right direction and more productive than any Summer transfer window under Mike Ashley ever!!!

    And that is fact!

  83. JJ….

    That is called fraud mate, if you think he could get away with that through such a high profile institution as NUFC then you are wrong.

    The club files its accounts annually, they are audited by one of the biggest and most respected accountancy firms in the country – He is not stealing the money.

  84. jj good point although you forgot to mention..

    barton 5.8
    smith 6.0
    rozenhal 3.0
    enrique 6.0
    faye 2.0
    beye 2.0

    these were all bought after ashley took over

    approx further 25 million spent….

  85. “Sal Sal says:
    June 2, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    JJ….

    That is called fraud mate, if you think he could get away with that through such a high profile institution as NUFC then you are wrong.”

    Sal, he is the sole owner of the company, its his and noone elses. YOu can only fraud a company that have other parties involved. YOu cannot steal from yourself!

  86. Malchick.

    Then in three seasons we still havn’t spent a cent on transfers. Where other clubs are spending around 15Mil a season with far less turnover than us.

    Plus were those signings not Big Sam signings. They were in all likelihood signed off by Fred Sheperd.

  87. Aye, the accounts do need to be independently audited and filed with Companies House.

    I can see your logic JJ, but it is fraud, and if any hint of that was present then I am sure the auditors would have to inform Companies House, which is a Government departmnet.

  88. toonsy – there is a much more subtle difference between leasehold and freehold these days, but yes you’re more or less right mate.

  89. Toonsy, there are always ways around in if you are the sole owner.
    He could take money out and say. Yes but I put in the same amount to compensate for that loss. It was a cash injection. He could buy a player cash (like Bassong) not under the company name and keep the profit on the sell on. There are loads of things. He could reward himself a massive bonus of what ever he wished. Pay himself a massive salary out of the company… and so on. It’d all be legal.

  90. Never let the facts get in the way of a god rant eh, JJ? ;)

    Now where did I put that pitchfork? :)

  91. jj, ashley took over in may. signings were june thru august.

    agree our net spend on players since he took over has been zero.

  92. JJ – But all that would show up on the accounts wouldn’t it? Under ‘Director pay’?

    You do know you can get yourself a copy of the accounts for yourself right? For a pound as a PDF download, if you want to straighten some facts out?

  93. No, I didn’t know… but I just don’t trust him at all. The sums just don’t add up. It makes no sense at all, why we are losing the amounts we are having spent nothing.
    We lost less under Sheperd and spent loads…

    How much is the director pay then?

  94. JJ…

    Thats just not the case.

    The company & the shareholders are separate legal entities, yes he controls all the money, but no he cant just take it out and report a loss.

    If there was even a whiff of that going on it would be blown up and he would be done for fraud.

    The thing is – Why would he bother to do that? He is owed I reckon around £140mil from the club, which he is well within his rights to take back whenever he likes / there is cash to do so, so why steal?

    Facts are that we were on a road to ruin and Ashley took us on without realising the facts. We are now lumbered with each other until he can sell us on for £250mil (unlikely), or systematically take back what he is owed.

    I hate the bloke for the lies and deceit, but to hate him for not wanting to just give away an enomouse proportion of his own money is just naive.

  95. Divint be daft man, toonsy.

    Why pay a pund for cold hard facts when you can make up any old sh!te for nowt!!?? :)

  96. TC – :lol:

    JJ – The most expensive directer we have is Llambias who gets £150,000 a year, which is shite in terms of football director pay. It’s effectively a minimum wage :D

  97. Toon Chicken –

    I’ve had enough of your sh!t… can’t you let me have my rant in peace!!!
    If Mike Ashley gets to bullsh!t everyone why can’t I! ;)

  98. Still think he’s screwing us somehow, just havn’t work out how yet! Well financially anyway. Its easy to work out how he’s screwed us in other departments…

  99. JJ – If I give you millions of socks, can you go around and systematically shove one in each and every one of them sodding Vuvuzela things or whatever they are called.

    Nothing against South Africa, buy by feck they are annoying.

  100. JJ – rant away mate – that’s what this place is for after all.

    Makes a nice change to have someone other than Stu doing it – so by all means – fill ya boots! :)

    Toonsy – £150k might not be much for a director but when you consider what the daft get actually does for the club it’s still daylight robbery! ;)

  101. Toonsy, they sell ear plugs at the games :-)

    But for the guys behind the teles. You are screwed…

    You’ll be suprised though. The foreigners are half the problem. Its the first thing they buy.
    I’m worried about the opening ceremony!!! Whats the point in having all these massive acts if all you can hear is the vuvuzela drowning them out.
    Hopefully they ban them from that event at least.

    Although to be fair, its fun at the games. Even I got one! ;)

  102. the council own the land the stadium sits on,but i seem to remember a certain leeds united started by selling their training ground to raise capital,and look what happened to them lol.

  103. If and when the press say something that is untrue and potentially damaging to the club/fan relationship expect a ‘CLUB STATEMENT’ as there has been the last few times. Where people are getting this ‘no comment’ idea from I have no idea. Also we are in much better financial state than many premier league clubs, few of which own their premesis outright and some of which are on the brink of administration.

  104. JJ – Something that makes that much noise at a football match and doesn’t involve the fans chanting is not my definition on ‘fun’.

    Much the same as the people who rings bells (Pompey), blow trumpets (England), bang drums (Blackburn, Blackpool) and have fully fledged bands (err Balckburn and England).

    They should all be banned, or at least have said instruments rammed up their rectum. Having sat three rows away from that Portsmouth twat who rings the bell, I can tell you that when the intial novelty dies down after 30 seconds, it become fricking annoying as hell.

  105. I usually stay out of all this financial crap(can’t even understand my electric bill) and I can’t remember who mentioned Ashley doing what FFS had in spending future income by having already spent the money from the 3 year season tickets.I have a 3 year ticket and I suspect that the majority are purchased like mine paying £50pm ish between Feb and Nov for 3 years,so each year the club has only recieved 1 years season ticket money and not the 3 years all in 1 go.
    Ref the mortgaging(alleged) what’s new? surely thats the way it’s done and now we’re back in the EPL then surely that security is no longer required?

  106. I quite enjoy it when the band picks up toonsy, alright maybe not every week but for world cup games it’s quite acceptable, no?

  107. They have some horns type things at Real Madrid Toonsy,it does my heed in when we go over there.The only singing(99% of the time) is done by ‘The Ultras’….give me chanting any day of the week.

  108. The only bit I find naff is when the trumpet starts playing H A P P Y. The bells at pompy are a bit naff aswell.

  109. “richietoon richietoon says:
    June 2, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    I usually stay out of all this financial crap(can’t even understand my electric bill) and I can’t remember who mentioned Ashley doing what FFS had in spending future income by having already spent the money from the 3 year season tickets.I have a 3 year ticket and I suspect that the majority are purchased like mine paying £50pm ish between Feb and Nov for 3 years,so each year the club has only recieved 1 years season ticket money and not the 3 years all in 1 go.
    Ref the mortgaging(alleged) what’s new? surely thats the way it’s done and now we’re back in the EPL then surely that security is no longer required?”

    Richie

    Stop speaking sense!!!
    You have no place on this blog – your comments are not confrontational, they make complete factual sense and don’t offend anybody… Please go to another blog, no are completely out of place here ;)

    Toonsy

    Unfortunately in South Africa, our chanting only goes as far as one song and the first verse of “Ole Ole”…
    So we just blow our horns! Okay!!! You got a problem! ;)

    Although rugby games are very festive and traditionally full of chanting songs I don’t think the “Blou Bull” songs would fit in with “Bafana Bafana”.

  110. You know, if I was not a Geordie and looked the local press, this and other NUFC-related sites, I’d be convinced that Toon supporters are constant whingers who are so so cynical and suspicious about events at Newcastle United and Mike Ashley in particular.

    Leave the guy alone and try to stop the paranoia that’s becoming more and more evident. The media feeds it and sadly, we buy into it! Ignore the crap, leave MA to run his business and let him worry – it’s his £millions we’re talking about.

    Lay back, relax and enjoy the summer before you get too obsessed with the apparent shinnanigans at or about SJP.’

    Chill out guys – this is becoming really, really tedious – it’s the samee old crap, over and over and over again and again and again and….. yeeeeehahhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrr….. thump!!.

  111. You go to the game so you don’t have to put up with the crappy commentary & punditry, & all you get is f***ing bell ringing, crap drumming & divvy horns.
    You can’t win.

  112. There is nothing funnier than a bunch of football fans trying to understand the running of a business.
    The fact that a mortgage is secured on a property does not change the ownership of the property. So the main thought of “NUFC doesn’t own the ground anymore” is complete nonsense.
    All the crude sums of transfers in and out are just laughable. It simply does not work like that in real life. There are constant depreciations on contracts, there are salaries and other payments, and there are a whole host of other costs that no-one seems even aware of. How much is the insurance bill? Does anyone have a clue? Does anyone even know what they are insuring? I thought not.

    Stick to the footballing commentary. Leave the business side to those who know, and stop making fools of yourselves.

    Like him or hate him, Ashley has forgotten more about running a business than most of you will EVER know in your lifetimes. So you simply aren’t wualified to pass judgement on him or his business dealings. You may like to snipe at him, but accept you just don’t know what you are talking about

  113. I don’t go to the game to avoid the commentary, I go because its 100 times better than watching it on the telly, or 200 times better than listening to it on the radio. The noise is all part of the atmosphere.

  114. ”Ashley has forgotten more about running a business than most of you will EVER know in your lifetimes”

    Hmm, this is the same guy that bought the club without doing due dilligence and then signed players without putting a relegation clause in their contracts, some business man that.

  115. “How much is the insurance bill? Does anyone have a clue? Does anyone even know what they are insuring? I thought not.”

    Southern Geordie

    I believe if St James burns down, Ashley gets paid out 5 cornish pasties a day in capital outlay for five years.

    Hope that clears things up…

  116. “DJG says:
    June 2, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    CLiNT FLiCK

    I didnt realise it was a joke, jokes are usually funny.”

    See, now thats a joke ;)

  117. I dont know what’s worse?

    Being told we have no clue when it comes to finances, which is probably true ;)

    OR

    Being popped at for reporting something that was brought to the attention of us by The Guardian ;)

    The way I understand it is, as an asset, it is never truly owned until there is nothing owed on it.

    I ‘own’ my house, although I don’t really as it has a mortgage on it. It may be my name on the deeds, bills etc, but if I ever fell behind then the bank would swoop to protect their investment, ie the money I borrowed, by claiming my house.

    Now, if I didn’t have a mortgage then they couldn’t do anything about it as it would be mine, and I wouldn’t owe the bank anything. At the moment, like Newcastle, I do, which means they have a right to ownership if the club fail there side of the bargain, hence the real, true owners are, at the minute, Barclays.

    Just my take on it, but it seems more sensible than claiming ownership for something that I haven’t paid for yet. Todays modern “I want it now” society eh? ;)

  118. toonsy says:
    June 2, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    “I set ‘em up, you knoxk ‘em down”

    Toonsy, My highly digested debunking as I’m gannin’ to work on the second part of the birthday ‘blog now.

    Divven’t worry man! There’s nothing unusual going on here at all apart from taking a big hit through being relegated, though we knew that already. The Grauniad’s “Digger” is doing what he does, trying to make something which isn’t especially out of the ordinary in a business like Newcastle United look highly sinister in some way.

  119. that fker from whitehaven well and truly lost the plot..
    i thought ashley had sorted the overdraft out,didnt barclays want it reducing to 20 mill.

  120. Birthday blog part 2 :D

    I shall rest my typing fingers then and wait, patiently ;)

    Wildly off topic, but had a demonstration of the new hybrid commercial vehicles on offer yesterday. Clever shit man. I believe London transport have already agreed to take some on trial.

  121. toonsy says:
    June 2, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    “Wildly off topic, but had a demonstration of the new hybrid commercial vehicles on offer yesterday. Clever shit man. I believe London transport have already agreed to take some on trial.”

    Toonsy, are you still thinking about leaving the best to join the sausagemunchers of Munich?

  122. Worky – Ongoing. I have a 3 day meeting up near Manchester in a few weeks about it, at some swanky all expenses paid 5-star hotel/spa thing in Man Utd footballer territory.

    Problem I have is:

    Do I want to leave a somewhere that I have led to the top of the industry, certainly within the UK?

    OR

    Do I want to try and do it again somewhere else?

    I may not be the sharpest tool in the box at times, but I do have a record in that particular field that cannot be beaten, or can it?

    If I leave, what about if I fail etc etc.

    My heart says I should stick at it as they were the ones to give me the chance in the first place, when I didn’t have a ‘name’ so to speak. But my head is wondering what it could be like somewhere else.

  123. CLiNT – Never seen anything like it make, dead impressive. Obviously I have had a bat about in the Prius etc, but these are something else.

    The distances that can be achieved are increasing aswell, meaning that there could be greater uses, like HGV’s for example.

    I wont go into the next big thing yet, which is being prepared for public announcement ;)

  124. Electric milk carts Toonsy,the world is crying out for them………oh and golf carts might be worth a go……I’m on a roll,gissa job! ;-)

  125. toonsy,
    fank thuck.
    Can’t believe it’s took this long tbh.
    But hey, at last.
    We gotta get away from using petrol that’s for sure.
    & public transport & HGV probably use more than most.
    Good news.

  126. There is a massive inherent problem with mass electricty powered vehicles at the minute. I don’t reckon that will be overcome, certainly not anytime soon.

    I think the technology will be there, but by the time the infrastructure and such is built and rolled out on a mass scale, that the technology would have surpassed it. Hence;

    “I wont go into the next big thing yet, which is being prepared for public announcement”

    ;) ;)

  127. What’s the ‘inherent’ problem?

    Next big thing……….’Rubber cars’?
    :)

  128. Hitman – Clever shit mate, real clever.

    CLiNT – Battery size is one, but it electric power is also not long term enough.

    To truly get the benefit of electric vehicles then there has to be a massive upgrade to the national grid for a start, plus loads more capacity added to the system, and the potential to produce large amounts of energy on demand compared to the relative drip feed that we use now. That will require power stations that can produce multiples of what they do now, which would put them in the nuclear category.

    Not to mention the cost and time to do such a thing and you would probably be looking at decades before it’s up and running on a scale that would be required.

    Alternatively, we already have a fuel infrastructure out there – petrol stations. Replace the petrol/diesel that vehicles run on with something renewable, like say Hydrogen, and you have a renewable, easily distributed fuel infrastructure already in place. The last piece of the puzzle is getting the Hydrogen to work properly and to be stored safely and without risk.

    I reckon that is the way we will be heading. It wouldn’t cost anywhere near what sorting out an entire electricity infrastructure would cost. Think about it, every house, business etc would need at least one charging point etc etc. The cost would be staggering.

  129. they reckon that the north east will lead the way toonsy with power points and the like,nissan already have them in there car parks at washington..

  130. & electric power stations are as bad as sucking all the juice outta the earth too.

  131. toonsy says:
    June 2, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    “Alternatively, we already have a fuel infrastructure out there – petrol stations. Replace the petrol/diesel that vehicles run on with something renewable, like say Hydrogen, and you have a renewable, easily distributed fuel infrastructure already in place. The last piece of the puzzle is getting the Hydrogen to work properly and to be stored safely and without risk.

    I reckon that is the way we will be heading. It wouldn’t cost anywhere near what sorting out an entire electricity infrastructure would cost. Think about it, every house, business etc would need at least one charging point etc etc. The cost would be staggering.”

    That’s why I mentioned the Honda, Toonsy.

  132. Hitman – There are a few places that are rolling out charging points.

    And that is great a for short, city trips, like around London for example, electricity would be great, and the demand wouldn’t be too bad.

    But to get motoring freedom to a level that is now, something else needs looking at. The main problem with sole electrical power is the battery, and the fact that the distances they allow are poor in comparison to hybrid vehicles.

    Batteries are one of the areas where mankind has failed to advance at the level we have in say, computering power.

  133. Worky – Aye, just seen you mentioned it.

    Anyway, thanks for joining us at the motor show, hope you have had fun and I’ll see you next time :D

    Kris Boyd then?

  134. aye thats reet toonsy,the new leaf car by nissan,on a full charge you would get 300 mile out of it,ya fked if you fancie a day trip to skegness :)

  135. What, Toonsy wants to talk football? Don’t be daft, there’s less whining when your on about cars!

  136. Anything that pisses off clarkson is fine by me though.
    :)

    Boyd is a definite maybe.

  137. Who the hell fancies a day trip to Skegness? A bloke I used to work with retired and bought a B&B there, so I went to see him.

    I took the train for the 130 odd mile, 9 HOUR trip. And people wonder why the trains don’t catch on 8O

  138. Lesh – Good point, and there was also a sense of agreement whilst we were talking about them 8O

    Cars are the way forward so it seems lol

  139. CLiNT – Clarkson’s daughter goes to the public school where I live.

    Wonder if she is an obnoxious gobshite like her father?

  140. Hmm! the more things change, the more they stay the same.
    Afraid the long ongoing saga regarding the club, the owner and fans is becoming one big bore.
    Toonsy, get outta toon and save your sanity, Der Bundesleague is decent football quite similar in style to the EPL and cost`s a lot less.
    They have the best wurst in the Fatherland, and the beer`s not shabby.
    There`s nothing quite as bad as wondering “what would have happened had i accepted the offer”.
    Having a goal or goals are an essential part of what makes life worthwhile.

  141. There are a few pairs of knickers getting twisted today….

    Can’t the blog get a financial expert (accountant) to give the accounts (as filed at co’s house) the once over & thus provide some independent analysis…I’ll even contribute!

  142. Witters, you can get the for a quid from Companies House as a PDF download, if you want to cast your eyes over them.

  143. Oooh, but remember, they are the accounts that end when we got relegated. These figures concern the current accounts which wont be out until April/May next year.

  144. toonsy – bit of a sweeping statement seeing as I’ve only been to Germany once before BUT the food is fookin horrid!!

  145. Toonsy, I’m also wondering whether it would reduce the number of elton johnesque trantums whenever anything of a financial nature hits the press!

    Also if the information out today isn’t based on accounts then they lack credibility…

  146. Thats what I said in the article, Witters. How on earth would The Guardian get hold of such figures?

  147. Witters says:
    June 2, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    “Toonsy, I’m also wondering whether it would reduce the number of elton johnesque trantums whenever anything of a financial nature hits the press!”

    No, it won’t, Witters. It doesn’t matter how many times both myself and others have looked at the accounts and other things, and tried to explain them, you just get the same old same old from some people. It’s like banging one’s head against a brick wall.

  148. Toon Chicken says:
    June 2, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    “toonsy – bit of a sweeping statement seeing as I’ve only been to Germany once before BUT the food is fookin horrid!!”

    Curry wurst.

  149. Until battery technology improves and instantaneous Charging is available,hybrids will probably dominate the car market.
    Building a solely electric powered car would perhaps be self defeating in a sense, having then to create an increase in the number of electric generating plants burning fossil fuels.
    Certainly hydrogen is the hope for the future, unfortunately the technology is considered a long term goal.
    However to-days cars are really not so different from the cars of our grandfathers, same basic technology with a few extra bells and whistles, cars in fact are responsible for a great amount of the worlds pollution and things will not change unless the manufacturers are faced through regulatory bodies not unlike the State of California, which force`s them to meet the standards the state requires.
    Which in turn usually becomes the standard and something which others benefit from.

  150. Wienerschnitzel – I don’t give a toss how nice it may be. Look at it, just look at the name of it, then tell me it sounds desirable!

  151. toonsy says:
    June 2, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    “Worky – Come on man, where is part 2?”

    I shouldn’t have wrote that! I’m working on it bit by tiny bit between my real work. I got a biut distracted looking over the old stuff too.

    One thing I’ll say about Bowburn. He’s a good judge of a footballer and he got Vuckic absolutely bang on. I remember thinking exactly the same things the first time I saw him.

  152. I’m out ATM, Toonsy. I’ve been getting rid of some malware at an Internet caff.

    I’m nipping back home for a quick sausage sandwich then I’m gannin’ to finish off.

  153. toonsy says:
    June 2, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    “Quick sausage sandwich?

    That isn’t another one of your innuendos is it?”

    In hindsight, the “I’m gannin’ to finish off” possibly makes it look worse than it is!

  154. Currywurst. Are you serious?

    The clue is in the title fellas – one of the wurst things I’ve ever tasted!!

    Actually that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but seriously, don’t believe the hype!

  155. TC …I only used to go for the currywurst cos the currysauce used to cover up the taste of the bratwurst a bit……….I was more of a ‘stagger out the bar’ and have a gyros and chips or half chicken n chips……….you can get beer in Mc’ds though which is a plus.

  156. I figured mate.
    ;)

    They have a nice range in thunder storms too.
    Was there when portugal knocked england outta the euro’s.
    Shit, can it rain.

  157. So many supporters are now accountants too, explains the detailed footballing fiscal analysis appearing on here yet again. I just don’t get it with some supporters, another season over, this time as champions and they are not satisfied, this is just not good enough so the doom and gloom merchants are back out again, we haven’t been relegated yet, we haven’t even been beat, CH is still manager and we have a better squad than many, what a load of bollocks.
    Roll on the start of the season. Oh and MA, keep it up, for a season we and you haven’t put a step wrong.

  158. Dearie me Kev, that’s going a bit far mind…

    Whatever the financial aspects of the football club were, are or will be, clearly they’ve continued to trip themselves up throughout their tenure, including this season.

    Congratulations to Ashley for righting the wrong of relegation by getting us back up but there are plenty of mistakes you’d hope they would learn from. In the last year they’ve still proven they haven’t got the hang of this lark and they make the same mistakes re PR continually.

  159. I really am starting to wonder if the creators and the people who run http://www.nufcblog.org are actually Newcastle United fans. Almost all of your articles are about negativitiy surrounding the club. You never have anything good to say and you do everything in your power to bring the club down.

    As I have noticed, your website and the Newcastle United blog page have released web pages surrounding the finances of the club which are non-existant. We were given the statement two weeks ago and we have a five year plan to break even, so everything is in order for the future.

    Every football club has a mortgage on their stadium and training grounds. The fact is we are still paying what we owe monthly to the mortgage collectors and there has not been any official statement from the club surrounding this matter. Therefore, us Newcastle United fans, true Newcastle United fans, should only believe what is been given from the official Newcastle United website.

  160. James Martin says:
    June 2, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    “I really am starting to wonder if the creators and the people who run http://www.nufcblog.org are actually Newcastle United fans. Almost all of your articles are about negativitiy surrounding the club. You never have anything good to say and you do everything in your power to bring the club down.”

    You obviously haven’t read much of this ‘blog, James, and the wide spectrum of opinion contained within it. So don’t try and pretend that you have.

  161. I’m not trying to have a go, I just think all fans have had enough of any uncertainty there may be. It brings the moods of fans down. Yes, we do lke to be informed of these things that your are referring to but like I also said things are only true if they are released from the official site and is this an official site?

  162. If the club makes continual losses you either get the owner to put some money in or you ask the bank for some money and they will want security.
    Newcastle United have been spending money for many seasons which it has not generated-its all been borrowed-the money for Owen-borrowed-for Luque-borrowed. The wages have taken all the income.People go on about sponsorship/merchandise/3 yr season tickets-its all gone into paying a 70m wage bill.
    The club must get rid of the high earners once and for all and put in a proper wage structure.

  163. Hi,
    So as a barclays shareholder do I effectively own part of the ground? So all those Sunderland fans and that Yank who owns them who are shareholders in Barclays own SJP too…

    Funny
    My prediction is 18th place for next season.

    Fabio

  164. Yes absolutely-but nothing has changed-under Freddie we had a charge on the ground against future income-dont remember which Bank it was.
    The Banks own a lot of football grounds!

  165. Guardian muckraking! :mad:

    Toonsy has been doing his own digging, and The Guardian are officiall shite!

    Toonsy’s truth will be along shortly ;)

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