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Amortisation and how it affects a football club’s profit figures

Posted on March 2nd, 2011 | 179 Comments |

Loads of financial nonsense to give you a headache
Ouch - me head hurts!
Much recent discussion about Newcastle United’s profits and/or losses in the transfer market has convinced one writer that a tedious post about amortisation is necessary.

I’ve noticed discussions in the comments on this ‘blog lately about players sold v players bought and the profit or loss that club makes as a result.

If, however, you try to tally this up with club accounts you have to bear in mind something called amortisation, which distorts things a bit.

I’ll demonstrate how it does so in possibly to most boring ‘blog article ever written.

Let’s say we buy a player for £12m in 2011 and he goes up in value playing for Newcastle (of course) and we sell him one year down the line for £24m. Without amortisation, it’s simple: we’d just record -£12m in 2011 and +£24m in 2012 against that player, giving us an over all profit on that player of £12m:

2011 2012 Profit On Player
(£12m) £24m £12m

However, in the real world – at least the one inhabited by accountants – it doesn’t work like that because of amortisation. If a player has signed a two year contract and is sold after one year, he is valued by his amortised book value, not by how much he cost in the first place.

So a player that cost £12m originally is only worth £6m after 1 year for the purposes of accounting, so if he’s sold for £24m the profit is recorded as £24m – £6m = £18m.

2011 2012 Profit On Player
(£12m) £24m £18m

Now let’s see what happens if the same player bought for £12m is signed up on a 4 year contract. That would see him amortised at 12/4 = £3m a year, so if he’s sold after one year his ‘book value’ is £12m – £3m = £9m, so the profit recorded is £24m – £9m = £15m.

2011 2012 Profit On Player
(£12m) £24m £15m

And if we look at the lengths of various contracts and how they affect the profit recorded if a player purchased for £12m is sold one, two and three years down the line for £24m, we get:

Contract Length Yrly Amort Book Value After 1 Year Profit On Player Sold At £24m after 1 year Book Value After 2 Years Profit On Player Sold At £24m after 2 years Book Value After 3 Years Profit On Player Sold At £24m after 3 years
3 £4m £8m £16m £4m £20m £0m* £0m*
4 £3m £9m £15m £6m £18m £3m £21m
6 £2m £10m £14m £8m £16m £6m £18m

So the effect of signing players on longer contracts is that the recorded profit of a player sold somewhere down the line is less but, within that, the longer you hang onto a player in terms of his contract duration, the more the recorded profit.

There are a couple of asterisks above marked against a player signed on a 3 year contract who is then sold after 3 years. As you can see the flow of the maths is different in this case because the player will be out of contract and essentially a free agent, thus realising no money for the selling club.

Of course in reality it’s not even that simple because the linear approach I’ve used above may not be upheld. A club may not, for example, be able to demand so much for a player close to the end of his contract because a buying club will know that the selling club needs to take some money before the player disappears on a free at the end of the contract.

That is possibly the least interesting post I’ve ever written and I almost didn’t bother publishing it, but spare a thought for me: if you thought it was boring to read, imagine how tedious it was to actually write!

I should point out that I’m not an accountant (and as such I expect fair criticism in the comments) and none, some or all of this article may be completely wrong, although it looks okay based on what I’ve read. NUFCBlog.org is not responsible for errors. Well, actually I suppose it is responsible for the errors as I wrote this; what I mean is that if you amortise your shoes based on my description here, then NUFCBlog.org accepts no responsibility for any losses you might suffer and will not be buying you a new pair of Hush Puppies.

NUFCBlog Author: Hugh de Payen I'm a baby-boomer of the punk rock persuasion, currently exiled in Somerset for crimes committed in a previous life where locals keep trying to poison me with something called 'scrumpy'. Hates sprouts, coat-hangers, Cilla Black, ornaments, Steven Seagull movies and 50 Cent (he's not worth 10). Hugh de Payen has written 634 articles on this blog.

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179 Responses

  1. Nice effort at trying to clear things up Hugh.. Unfortunately all the tossers that go on about how much MA has pocketed over the last few transfer windows will still continue to crap on about it… does my head in… Are you out there Craig? :)

  2. great article, i’m not going to point out any mistakes as i would have made just as many if not more but it has certainly given me a better understanding of the way player sales are calculated.
    so at least you get 1 positive comment from me, and no it’s only boring and tedious if you don’t understand or have an interest in figures.

  3. Don’t forget that the amortisation figure is offset against cash flows, so the player is shown as a cost each year, coming off the profit.

    Players like Carroll are not amortised because they cost nothing.

  4. Aye John, that’s one thing I was actually aware of (amongst many financial things I’m not!), but I thought I’d simplify by just looking at it as if it’s a ‘profit/loss on a player’.

  5. Never really been intrested in all the money side of things, but i suppose this is good to know, although ill probably forget the lot in the next 10 mins

  6. and if we spend $200 on strapping for a players ankle for a season, you would also have to take that of the profit… To make an accurate asumption around how much profit we make from the sale of a player is near on impossible.. There are so many factors that need to be taken into account and more often than not… they are not.

  7. I agree with Aussie Magpie Fan @3 although some of this fraternity appear to have the retention span of a newt!

    That being the case, they’ll soon be back bleating on about certain parties pocketing money having forgotten of course that those very same certain parties have or are on the way to righting the wrongs caused by previous regimes which have done very nicely from their investments in ths club.

    The club’s moving towards self-sufficiency a la Arsenal which does buy small and sell big to balance the books.

    Let’s not forget where the club could have been without MA’s involvement – down the pan!

  8. There now joeys tache @7, you’ve proved yourself wrong …. or have you forgotten what you said you’d probably forget about in 10 minutes?

  9. Please don’t get the horde all fired up about Ashley, Lesh!!!! After profits on player sales it is their second most favorite subject matter, to bitch about..

  10. Read that a couple of accountants whose yacht had sunk mid-Pacific.

    They were being circled by a couple of sharks which didn’t approach them at all.

    One of the accountants wondered out loud why they hadn’t been attacked and the other pondered and replied: “Professional courtesy sir, professional courtesy’!

  11. Aussie Magpie Fan @ 13 … I’ve no intention of doing so at all, it doesn’t take much though does it.

  12. Hey Hugh, why don’t you do a feel good piece around how enjoyable this season has been as far as performances on the park are concerned.. Maybe liken it to previous seasons gone and see how it fairs against some of our better years (way back when).. It might take some minds off transfer speculation and all the other off field BS..

  13. Surely, if you’ve paid £12mil for a player, and then £4mil in wages, the club has spent £16mil on the player in total. If you then sell him for £24mil a year later, you only make an £8mil profit?

    So, the following year, if over the course of 2 seasons you had paid the player £8mil in wages, you would’ve effectively invested £20mil on the player? So selling him for £24mil would then only be gaining a profit of £4mil???

    Is that not right?

  14. speaking of c@ck ends and t@@sers… oaussie magpie fan….. i have all the info on every player sold since ashley came in and as even ‘i love mike ‘ found out it points to a huge amount of cash ingflux from players sold. near on 60 million quid now. This money has prob gone on debt reduction etc and god knows what else. i dont even protest that point,, its jsut the dicks like you ozzie, i need to point that out for. i am sure he aint skimming it as such, just selling players to balance books etc. it amounts to 60 million made though no matter which way you cut it.

  15. Good write up Hugh.

    Mainly I’m a football fan and never used to give a toss about figures, but then you realise that the two are very much linked when you don’t have a rich Russian oligarch or Arab tycoon to bankroll the club.

    Finances now play an important part in the consideration of football of football fans. If that was the case then it would at least stop the cries for the £20 million players and such. I won’t hold my breath :)

  16. hey auzzie, wind ya neck in fella, i am as fed up of it all as you rose tinted lot. simple fact is though ,this is a blog and it is free for you to sing his praises and free for me to er…not

  17. Craig – Fair enough point dude about it being a blog and that, but there is only one person being abusive about it, and it ain’t Aussie Magpie :)

  18. I thought I’d better ditch it as it’s hardly a pleasant sight for people. If I tell people about my blog and the first thing they see is that then they may well wonder what they have wandered into :)

    By the way, leave your car keys in the bowl on entry :lol:

  19. re: Fat Ashley.

    Yes, he’s made some stupid mistakes, a LOT of them were mainly badly managed by his (lack of) PR team.
    – Keegan-gate
    – Appointing Kinnear
    – Getting rid of Hughton, or more importantly, the manner in which (although this is beginning to look justified)
    – Not buying a striker to replace Carroll (although we’ve not missed him since December)
    – All the horrendous SportsDirect sh!t on the stadium
    – The relegation year.

    Yes, he’s made some good decisions for this football club.
    – Investment in youth
    – Stability of finances (this is going to be a bigger deal than most people foresee)
    – Some great signings for not much money
    – Some pretty good transfer dealings on the whole

    On the surface, I’m pretty non-plussed with him. I f*cking HATE him due to the fact he’s left most of us in the dark. But, I’m not naive enough to run through the streets with a flaming torch, crying for his head on a stick.

    He’s done some good at this club, and some bad. What people don’t understand is that Freddy Shepherd did just as bad, if not worse, than he has. Freddy was taking money that wasn’t his. Freddy was sacking managers left right and centre, Sir F*cking Bobby for one. Freddy covered up for this by fooling us into thinking Albert Luque and Michael Owen were to be our saviours. All whilst taking us to the brink of financial ruin.

  20. Agreed Toonsy.

    I think owners who want to balance the books have to be very cautious in the transfer market.

    Suppose Hatem Ben Arfa had played a bit longer in France, been awarded a few more caps and had cost us £12m. After a few games we would have all said “Brilliant, worth every penny”. Along comes Mr De Jong. Oops there goes our transfer kitty and nothing to show for it for at least 6months.

    In football you don’t always get what you pay for. Every season clubs unearth a few reasonably priced gems and every season clubs also pay big fees for players who do not go on to justify the investment.

  21. toonsy.. my old nemisis.. you need to open your eyes to post three and man up nad admit i didnt start this one.

  22. Craig – I didn’t say anyone started it did I? What I did see is someone (Aussie) address another poster (you) without resorting to childish remarks and petty, lewd, name-calling whilst the other (you) replied to Aussie with a barrage of expletives and insults.

    Internet warrior.

    Man up indeed :)

  23. toonsy.. ah you never saw him call me t@sser then …..give your glasses a wipe over mate and read again. and if you try to say he didnt you are proper splitting hairs. Besides, keep your nose out as me and oz sorted it anyway, i am sure he dont need an internet minder.

  24. want to learn about football finances? play football manager! (only half kidding, actually)
    the way they’ve updated that side of the game is pretty impressive, and confusing. balancing transfer and wage budgets and taking all sorts of income/expense details into account, you can run a club into the ground without even realizing you’re doing it.
    ex: i’m manging NUFC, about 150K under my weekly wage budget and still have 1M or so tranfer budget. not selling out the ground (avg around 47K) and i’m still losing money every month. so many factors involved that unless you ARE an accountant and have access to ALL of the clubs expenses/incomes, you’ll never fully understand it
    very brave for taking a stab at this stuff hugh!

  25. anyway getting back to the article itself and away from T@ssers (not aussie either!)… i have no idea of the ins and outs of nufc finances but then again.. neither have any of the others that bang on about it just like me. One thing i do know though is that ashley is a liar and i just dont trust a single word he says. We kinda have some sort of figure agreed that we were 100 million in the red when ashley took over, 40 million on stadium so 60 million was players outstanding. We are told that we were not sustainable etc and it may be right, god knows. The only thing we can do is look at figures that are avaliable to read and as this article is all about players etc check this out below:

    97/98 – 28.6 million outlay on players
    98/99 – made 4.1 million on players
    99/00 – 9.6 million outlay on players
    00/01 – 8 million outlay on players
    01/02 – 5.7 million outlay on players
    02/03 – 14.8 million outlay on players
    03/04 – 100k outlay on players
    04/05 – 2.7 million outlay on players
    05/06 – 18.8 million outlay on players
    06/07 – 10.9 million outlay on players

    TOTAL outlay in ten years previous to ashley is 95.1 million quid

    We can then ADD on 40 million for stadium which brings spending up to 135.1 million quid. Lets also bare in mind the TV rights, sponsorship etc has gone through the roof and has doubled since ashley took over.

    NOW lets look at Ashelys time in charge

    07/08 – 7.6 million outlay on players
    08/09 – 2.7 miilion profit on players sold over bought
    09/10 – 24 million profit on players sold over bought
    10/11 – 24.7 million profit on players sold over bought

    TOTAL outlay under ashely is NET profit of 43.6 million

    Then take into account the huge salary savings as we ahev sold huge amount of players, 10% hike in ticket prices, laid off 200 nufc staff etc etc.

    It seems to me that if we were 100 million in debt but we had spent 135 million then we were viable under previous and lets not forget that 40 of that 100 is on stadium. So in reality we cant count that as anyones fault. and if we then take into account the money that has been re-couped through player (thats assett) sales it leaves you wondering what is really going on. One thing is for sure…. the waters are made murky by ashley on purpose. We aint no pls anymore and that makes huge difference.

  26. Craig – Unless you are “all the tossers” then of course he didn’t. Not directly.

    Tell me to men up when you flob the dummy about that. Preiceless :roll:

  27. And it matters not if you are a PLC or not. The accounts still have to be audited by an independent party for verification, then they have to be submitted to Companies House.

    If you are suggesting that the books are murky you are suggesting that fraud is taking place between not only Ashley, but also the auditors, and the Government body that is Companies House.

    I trust you have seen the lodged accounts? Drop us an e-mail and I will willingly send you a copy that I bought. These are the facts that I use. Not form websites, from black and white independently audited accounts :)

  28. toonsy…we spent nearly 100 million on players in ten years prior to ashely, in times when the revenue from tv etc was paltry in comparrison. Ashely has made nearly 45 million quid on sold staff in three years as well as seeing tv rights double etc. Does this not for a second make you wonder.. just wonder if he is full of crap??
    Oh by the way my players sales are also baseed on actual documneted figures. I am only talking about player sales and purchases here… so do you not think it makes for interesting reading….

  29. craig – good diggin on that but i think it just shows what a mess ashley stepped into, taking only player buys/sales into account. off your #’s, we were in the red nearly 100M and in the last 4, in the black only 44M. obviously, there’s a lot more involved that just transfers in/out but i think ashleys hand has been forced by the spending and contracts given by his predecessors to HAVE to be more frugal in the transfer market.
    like i said, not having the whole picture (or totally understanding accounting principals, as is the case with many on here, myself included) its hard to say with any certainty one way or another. all we can do is assume and the assumption is that he’s cleaning up someone elses financial mess.
    as toonys said, you can look at the books which are reviewed by an independant 3rd party so if anything was looking sketchy, they’d catch it and call it out, leading to who knows what kind of legal issues for ashley.

  30. yeah, its like i said b4 eastcoast, perhaps he is selling to tidy up and wipe out debt – i have never denied that point. What gets my goat though is that ashely says he is contunuing to strengthen our squad and is spending money on the first team when that is clearly not the case. I would come out and say well done if he just told truth and said, look lads, i am going to sell off a load of players to make some money to balance the books. Now that i can live with as a man being honest. its just the drivel i hate.

  31. Ok Craig, by popular demand. The TV money has in no way doubled since 2007. There are many articles to back that up, have a look. If you are suggesting that the TV deal has doubled in four years then you really are blind. Don’t forget, for one season we didn’t have ANY of that TV money anyway as we were in the fizzy.

    Players in, players out. Meh. It matters not really. If you buy a Ferrari and can’t afford to put petrol in it you’d end up having to sell it. The only reason we had those players is because we had them on tick, which keft nothing t pay for anything else. You following me? If you spend your weeks wages on Friday on the piss then what are you going to do for the rest of the week?

    Have you read the Swiss Ramble? Have a read. I will explain everything far better than what I can….

    http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2010/12/newcastle-uniteds-finances-in-black-and.html

    Also, whilst you are at it, have a read of this….

    http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/

  32. I’d just like to add,
    When did ashley ever come out & ‘say’ stuff?

    Words from the horses mouth have been pretty thin on the ground, i think we’d all agree?

    You’ve also gotta take players/coaches/staff wages into account here too.

  33. Also,
    Hugh, you have god-like qualities for even attempting this whole thing mate.
    Excellent stuff.

    Respect!
    ;)

  34. toonsy.. you miss my whole point of everything i am getting at … check out post 41 mate. I am all for lord voldermort sorting the mess (if it was one) out etc. Just lets have some honesty fro mthe man. He can not say he is investing in the first team squad when he has made near on 45 million out of it. Thats all i am saying. The finances are what they are and i dont care at all about them in the same way you dont care about money made thorugh player sales. I just want LV to say it as it is cos for him to bang on saying he will continue to invest in the first team is just not accurate. I would love him to say, ok, until i get a handle on this bag of sh!te i shall be flogging off players to balance the books. Now that i can live with and accept as its the truth i guess.

  35. Hi CLiNT. How you diddlin? :)

    Craig – I’m not missing your point. I read it and understood it. You’re upset because Ashley tells fibs. I get it.

    Now get your head around the other side of things as well. There is more to it that what you are presenting.

  36. ashley doesnt need to fiddle the books if he wants to take cash out of the club. . . all he would need to do is charge interest on his loans to the club or declare himself a dividend. he might be a nasty piece of work but even he isnt daft enough to run a fraud risk when he doesnt need to.

    i reckon the cashflow of the club is more important than the profit though. . on the basis that profit is not a real number – its made up by accountants as shown in the article. so this tends to be where there is a miss-match between what the fans assume is the profit on sale of a player and the profit which is recorded in the profit and loss account.

    personally i think the way the club is run i.e. having a net transfer inflow is a good thing – clear the debt to avoid the situaiotns even arsenal and man utd find themselves in where the club has a massive interest cost to finance before player aquisitions. and then we can be in a much better bargaining position when it comes to transfer dealings gong forward

  37. We’ve also had a downturn in turnstiles revenue over the last 2/3 years as the 5k or so walked, they are only now starting to fill the stadium seats back up.
    That’s further loses.
    Lose of tv revenue whilst down in the ccc.

    Could any of any money made be paying off some of the club debts?

  38. Craig – You answered your own question. YOU thought it was funny :razz:

    Mind you, simple things, simple minds and that :)

  39. 6 miilion a year….small outfit?? what is it you do at minute. my work area is a tad bigger than that.

  40. All the best with that toonsy,
    be sure to come back & tell us how it went mate.

    What you in, Craig?

  41. Craig – I ru the Logistics for Toyota UK & Ireland and Porsche. My division is £6 million but overall I’m involved with just over a billion quids worth of stuff :)

    Well at the minute I am anyway lol

  42. I am a saturation diving superintendent in offshore oil and gas exploration clint. This current project is around 22 million for 47 days.

  43. ooo – mines bigger than yours…

    FFS grow a pair the both of ye. this is a football blog

  44. 69…. ahha, anyone who knows me will tell you that pussy footing around is not my strong point tattyheed. maybe i should work on it.

  45. HERES A QUESTION 1 FOR YOUS !!!!!!!! WHO DO YOU RECKON SHOULD BE NEWCASTLES NEW NUMBER 9??? ANDY CARROLL DIDNT RESPECT THE NEWCASTLE NUMBER 9 SHIRT THE WAY MY GIRLFRIENDS GRANDAD ( JACKIE MILBURN ) DID , AND WE NEED SOMEONE 2 COME AND CLAIM THAT NUMBER 9 SHIRT AND RESPECT IT !! SHAME ON YOU ANDY CARROLL YOU GREEDY MAN!!!

  46. i think we should get rid of the number 9 as its a dead tradition now and means nothing at all anymore.

  47. R U JOKING??? JACKIE WILL BE TURNING IN HIS GRAVE AT THE GREED OF ANDY CARROLL!! HAWAY MAN .. ANY1 AROUND HERE WUD ONLY DREAM OF PLAYN 4 NEWCASTLE AS NUMBER 9 AND CARROLL HAD IT THEN MOVED 2 LIVERPOOL HAHAHA , CANT W8 UNTIL LIVERPOOL COME 2 ST JAMES PARK , CARROLLS GNA HAVE A NICE WELCOME NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  48. Craig – Does it matter? I earn enough to keep a roof over my head and put food on the table. Is that not the name of the game like?

  49. Army69,
    nice choice of Mrs. mate.
    :)

    Unbelievable really that ac just up & went, for money.
    Just goes to show where players are at these days.
    Wor Jackie, will be stotten man.
    He’s gonna get ‘some’ reception back at SJP like you say.

    It’d probably be better if every time he got the ball, the stadium went silent, rather than egg him on with jeers like.
    ;)

  50. HAHA AYE I TEL EVERY1 WHO HER GRANDAD IS AND SHE GOES SHY , NOWT 2 B SHY ABOUT LIKE HES A MASSIVE LEGEND!!! WHERE I LIVE IN ASHINGTON THERES ALWAYS KIDS CLIMBING ON HIS STATUE AND THERES CHEWING GUM N THAT ON HIS FACE , NOOOOOOO RESPECT THE LITTLE SO AND SO’S!! NXT TIME I SEE THAT THEN A KID IS GETTING THROWN OVER A HOUSE LOL !!

  51. I BELEIVE THERE WILL B A NEW GEORDIE NUMBER 9 IN THE FUTURE THAT WILL B A HELLISH NUMBER 9 FOR US!! IF ONLY I WAS A GUD FOOTBALLER LOL

  52. Army69,
    I can’t believe that kids in Ashington don’t know or respect their heritage/legends.
    Mental!

    If you do catch one of the little gets, give ’em a clip from me too mate.

    :)

  53. Army,
    gotta say mate,
    the thought of you hoying a bairn ower a hoose made me laugh me ass off.
    Good one.
    :)

  54. i think that we will always stumble on good 9’s but prob is we will sel them asap for whatever reason we choose to belive it …. ashley greed or book balancing, wotever. I think we will have no more icons under this owner. Therefore its best to retire the number as with every tom dick nad harry that wears it, it is becoming more of a mainstream diluted number.

  55. Nice to see manusa get a little ‘pay back’ last night.
    Also,
    it was extra funny to see ‘king kenny'(shit, the pundits love him, don’t they?) get a kicking v wetspam.
    Big laughs all round.
    :)

  56. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    March 2, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    “Nice to see manusa get a little ‘pay back’ last night.”

    Aye, from the plaything of an evil Russian extortionist, Clint.

  57. CLiNT FLiCK says:

    “Unbelievable really that ac just up & went, for money.
    Just goes to show where players are at these days”

    Whats hard to grasp CF is you cant even see that the Fatman shafted AC and told him to feck off because he wanted the money in the bank.

    Thats what’s really unbelievable !!!!!!!!

  58. sick of red nose bleating over the refs (again)saying he knew what was going to happen with HIM,thing is nowt will happen to him over it,had it been another manager he would be pulled over the coals,it stinks imo

  59. Hugh,
    aye, good one for the arse.

    worky,
    almost anyone but manusa.
    ;)

    andymac,
    haddaway man, y’radjy.
    :)

    ice,
    alreet mate.
    Makes y’sick, doesn’t it?

  60. davy,
    we’ve got a blog here mate, nee offense like, but ‘don’t buy y’bread in this bakers, come to mine’.

    :)

  61. DAVY had a look, to state 80% of blogs are copy and paste,is not a good start imo,but thats just me

  62. CLINT ime good m8,talk about players setting example to kids,when the boss is always kicking off,aye good idea lets gan that way

  63. jus saying come and have look and give ya views thats all am sure we all go on more than one blog lads its not like am saying support 2 teams

  64. ice,
    an excellent point mate, that not one pundit would ever mention in a million years.
    They all gan on about players setting an example, but never the elder, wiser(?) managers.
    The way phelan brushed off rooney’s assault on satda was sick making, two-faced crap.
    Hypocrites, the lot of ’em.
    :(

  65. davy,
    mate, i was just testing the watta man.
    I know y’alright mate.
    Soz for rattling y’cage bud.
    ;)

  66. and as for man u last nite karma was served bcoz rooney should of been banned so how ironic is it that david luiz didnt get sent off for a foul on rooney then fergie comes out moaning classic

  67. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    March 2, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    “worky,
    i can’t believe how similar our taste in records is mate.”

    I wasn’t quite old enough to be a proper Punk, Clint, but I liked the music. Most people were into Heavy Metal at my school though.

  68. Well, money in & money out, but is this not a better team than the one relegated 2 years ago?

  69. Heavy metal, i could never get with all that twiddling up & down the scales.

    I was but a bairn meself like.
    But it was at the perfect time for this disinfected youth.
    :)

  70. BeeGuy,
    it’s a team, which is more than we had when we went down.
    & this team has heart.
    ;)

  71. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    March 2, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    “Heavy metal, i could never get with all that twiddling up & down the scales.”

    I used to love early Black Sabbath though, Clint. Still do.

  72. worky,
    i’d class them as heavy rock or even classic rock.
    Not really metal.

    Wasn’t it William S. Boroughs that coined the term Heavy metal (kids)?

  73. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    March 2, 2011 at 9:21 pm
    worky,
    i’d class them as heavy rock or even classic rock.
    Not really metal.

    “Wasn’t it William S. Boroughs that coined the term Heavy metal (kids)?”

    Aye Clint. He must have been the first person to use the term “Heavy Metal”. As you write, it was the character “Uranian Willy” AKA “The Heavy Metal Kid” in his novel “The Soft Machine” (which was also nicked as the name of a very famous prog band later on too). I think that the Soft Machine (the novel) was 1962?

    I definitely see Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin as the original “Heavy” bands, but Sabbath to me were the originators of the “Heavy Metal” genre of music, for better or for worse!

  74. BeeGuy says:
    March 2, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    “Well, money in & money out, but is this not a better team than the one relegated 2 years ago?”

    On paper? Or actually playing as a unified team on the pitch, BeeGuy?

  75. I never thought I’d see EBITDA discussed if a footy forum….not too many topics have inspired such a lengthy debate/response. Fact is, if you want to understand how the club or any big business is run you need to be aware of these things

  76. worky,
    aye,
    he coined a whole host of band names & various other stuff.
    Johnny Yen & Hynotizin’ chickens springs to mind. :)
    Love the guys work.

    Wild boys & dead fingers talk, there’s 2 more & 2 of his finest works, for me.
    ;)

  77. julio,
    you’ll find all manner of topics here mate.
    :)

    Not all football fans follow the stereotype.
    ;)

  78. julio laker says:
    March 2, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    “I never thought I’d see EBITDA discussed if a footy forum”

    Earnings Before Interest Taxes Depreciation and Amortisation.

  79. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    March 2, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    “worky,
    aye,
    he coined a whole host of band names & various other stuff.”

    His family used to be a “brand” too Clint. There was a time when The Burroughs Corporation was a major rival to IBM in the business machines and computing world.

  80. Worky, I remember reading that the rock band Free went to get a recording contract with Island. They told them to change there name to Heavy Metal Kids, Free told them to FO. So Island let them keep their name, it was later used of course by Gary Holton (RIP) and his band.

    Free were right of course brilliant band, but never heavy metal. It was a genre born a bit later.

    Bloody hell that was as bad as amortisation!! Sorry lads!!

  81. Clint,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_Corporation

    Tom, good to hear from you again!

    I always thought that Chris Blackwell and Island were one of the best record companies, and allowed artists to do what they wanted to do.

    I also recall that my brother once had a load of signed Free and Roxy Music stuff when I was a bairn, and my dad gave them all away to a jumble sale or something like that!

  82. I’ve come to the conclusion that we should play this team against Everton…

    ———-Harper———–
    Simpson-Willo-Collo-Enrique
    ———-Tiote————
    Ranger—-Nolan——Jonas
    ——-Best-Lovenkrands—-

    With Ireland to come on for Lovenkrands or Ranger as required.

  83. worky,
    aye mate,
    didn’t one of his relatives invent an adding machine?

    & on the ‘heavy metal kids’ thing, ‘London’ (Gary Holton)from auf weidersein pet was in a band of that name.
    ;)

  84. Hi Worky Good to hear from you mate!

    I have been a bit busy lately with ill kids, work and lately holidays!
    Aye they where a great label and Blackwell a top man! They had that name waiting for someone though, they also tried to get them to be Free at last.

    I bet the albums your dad gave away are worth some coin now! Thats what I will do with my kids tell them just to collect and preserve!

    Did you see that old firm game?!

  85. CLiNT

    I thought worky listened to punk not metal. Anyway, I base most of my drumming technique and style on Nikko from Iron Maiden. Love that style of metal.

  86. DJG,
    you a drummer then?
    Cool!

    Guitar & Vox for me, though i do like to cane the skins now & then, for fun mind.
    ;)

  87. Hey we should jam! I am a great singer! Well I think so anyway, everyone else thinks I am sh–!
    I am certain that everyone else is tone deaf, not me.

  88. Tom,
    aye mate. ;)
    The world starts to revolve around them, that’s for sure.
    Wouldn’t change it though.

    DJG,
    I started off on the drums, but i was only ever gonna be so good, so moved on to writing, which is my strong point.
    Guitar, i just love playing & you’ve gotta sing your own words.
    :)
    You must be canny after a dozen years then, get in a band mate, y’know y’wanna?
    :)

  89. I was in a band, a grunge type 3-piece with my mates. The lad who sang and played guitar was a very talented singer and good rhythm guitar player. He just wanted a drummer who was a harder hitter and would do what he wanted, whereas I am more creative and into Metal/Jazz/Funk drums with more fills. I need to find that sort of band and get into playing again.

  90. DJG,
    aye,
    you gotta be involved in something you enjoy, or it’s no fun.
    Something’ll turn up, it always does.
    ;)

  91. CLiNT

    Ive got a Fender Showmaster guitar aswell, I love it to bits, just wish I could learn to play it.

  92. Aye, I think thats how we should start with Ireland coming on at some point. Maybe shift Nolan to right centre midfield and play Ireland through the middle to his full potential.

  93. Aye you are right Clint, they are mint!

    Christian Bale came out with a great statement in his Oscars speech ‘to my little girl who has taught me so much more, than I will ever be able to teach her’.

  94. Can’t see AP sticking NR on the wing from the start like.
    I could be wrong.
    This is where we miss Routledge.
    Is Guthrie fit?
    Maybe Ireland is fit, i seem to remember reading something
    saying he was like.

  95. Tom,
    how you got & how old?
    Bairns man, make it all worthwhile, especially when the chips are down.
    ;)

  96. Could stick Jonas on the right, though, i don’t know who’d go left then.
    What’s the solution?

  97. Clint – 2 boys, 7 and 4 absolute belters and hilarious! (same as every Dad thinks)

    What about yours?

  98. He may do the Lover left wing thing(please no) and Guti on the right! I just remember watching Guthrie on the right v Wigan and thinking oh please no! That for me was a bit of a death knell for Hughton! Playing DG on the right and having Perch behind him, against Insomnia, disgraceful choice of players. Nowt against DG but he looks to be better central.

  99. CLiNT FLiCK says:
    March 2, 2011 at 11:15 pm (Edit)

    Could stick Jonas on the right, though, i don’t know who’d go left then.
    What’s the solution?

    Dunno mate. Wonder how much of his power is due to Jose.

  100. Clint 4 is the best age! I bet she is amazing mate!

    Oh what about young Ferguson he is bigging him up at the moment!

  101. Also the thing about Pardew (up to now)he seems to try and keep players to there positions more than most. So he won’t move two to accomodate one if you know were I am coming from.

  102. Hugh

    Wonder how much of his power is due to Jose.

    I wonder how much of his power is due to dribbling on his right and then having little to worry about. I bet if he had to dribble past a LB on the right and then be expected to produce a cross every time he would struggle.

  103. That didn’t make much sense, what I meant was he is a Messi type who dribbles on the opposite flank, but dosen’t really cross much, difference is messi beats everybody then scores.

  104. tom,
    aye, fergie could be a decent shout.
    DG in the middle, defo.

    She’s gorgeous mate, a right comedienne/actress in the making. Funny as…

  105. Jonas crossed for 2 goals recently, so he does have it in him.

    tom,
    ain’t seen batty on for a bit.

  106. CLiNT

    My cousin is about that age and she is such an entertainer/comedienne. Some girls that age are really funny. She’s got ginger hair aswell and does irish dancing.

  107. Clint- Pardew was also on about Ireland being versatile so he may play him on the right! Just trying to read between the lines.

    She sounds a corker mate! They really do take the clouds away, that and the toon doing well!

  108. Hugh,
    Jonas does work well in tandem with Jose like.
    I would like to see if Jonas can work the right though. I reckon he could play a free role too.

  109. The brum game showed how good Jonas can cross when he just goes for it & doesn’t hang on to the ball too long.

  110. tom,
    some players just need to cross to space, without over thinking it, i reckon he’s one of ’em.
    :)

  111. hang on a min, I just had a horrible thought. Am I correct in thinking that if Tiote gets another yellow he gets a two match ban?

  112. tom tomb says:
    March 2, 2011 at 11:50 pm
    DJG I think that is the case

    In that case we need to ready Alan Smith with the utmost urgency. … Just kiddin, we need Barton back ASAP.

    Night everybody!

  113. Clint… i pay two of them still mate. This last one gets er….lots ffs!

    worky… no man..we dotn wander around the seabed looking for rogue oil stashes. The sysmic survey boats do depth charges and do whatever it is they do. They send their reports back to the oil companies. The oil companies then send out a drill righ to carry out a test bore to take a sample. The oil could be crap quality and woudl cost too much to refine. If its ok thats when we come in and we basically build oil fields.

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