This ridiculous Cisse farce has been going on for too long now

Papiss Cisse scoring against Leeds United in the League Cup.

The last Toon goal scored by Cisse which wasn’t ruled out

In case you missed it, Papiss Cisse had yet another perfectly good goal ruled out as offside against Norwich on Saturday, yet another linesman seemingly judging Cisse on his reputation, rather than what he could actually see.

Luckily for Newcastle United, they still won 2-1 and got the three points so all was well that ended well. Even so, that hasn’t always the case and it is getting absolutely ridiculous now, to the point where lazy linesmen are just saying “oh it’s Papiss Cisse, it must be offside.”

I use the word “reputation” above, though it might come as a surprise to some so called fans (and Sports Direct News rent a quote, Malcolm MacDonald) that Cisse is not the most ‘offside’ striker in the Premier League by any means. Romelu Lukaku, Christian Benteke and several others were caught offside more often last season.

However, when it comes to having perfectly good goals wrongly ruled out as offside, Cisse in in a league of his own. He had seven wrongly ruled out last season, including two in one game against Metalist Kharkiv, and one which robbed us of a derby win against Sunderland. This means that he would have scored at least twenty goals last season had those seven goals stood.

Sadly, as we could see on Saturday, this phenomenon shows no signs of changing this season either. Perhaps the worst thing of all though is that it has been slowly but surely breaking Cisse’s confidence.

Put put this in context, it seems all the more ridiculous when you consider that the Premier League in their annual report for the 2012-13 season claimed (on page 29) that referees got 99% of all offside decisions right, and for the third season in a row too. With poor Papiss’s goals last season though, they only called 65% of them correctly, which is a scandal.

Of course. we all know (and it’s certainly repeated often enough) that match officials are human like the rest of us, and correspondingly prone to the odd mistake, but that stat for Cisse are a complete embarrassment for supposedly professional match officials at the highest level of the game.

It’s about time the club called them out on it.

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114 Responses to “This ridiculous Cisse farce has been going on for too long now”

  1. 1
    avatar Charlietoon says:

    Wow I didn’t realise the stats were so one sided!

    It really did annoy me when he was called offside for his goal last week and the commentators laughed and said “Oh of course it’s Papiss” and then went on and on. Then they showed a reply that showed he was about a foot onside because of a defenders trailing leg and apart from a very light “maybe he was on” it was not spoken about or referred to. Even in certain articles the incident is referred to as “a goal rightly disallowed for being offside” and it just shows that no one even saw the moment actually happen.

    I think on the basis of these stats Cisse should be able to sue the FA for discrimination or something! Imagine that :)

  2. 2
    avatar geordiedan says:

    Very interesting read that Worky.

    And Charlietoon I know the exact moment you are talking about in the commentary.

    I think it will really come down to one of those situations where Papiss suddenly gets overlooked by the opposition because he’s been so ineffective lately then BANG! he’ll smash a couple past an unwitting opposition and probably score 6 goals in 7 matches shortly after.

    He a very talented finisher who has had bad run mix with a ****load of crap decisions.

    Luck balances itself out and he’ll be firing again pretty soon I think-hopefully he’ll still be with us by then.(unless his being here will prevent Fatman from parting with anymore cash).

    Regardless the team’s looking unexpectedly confident right now and whoever starts helping Remy score for NUFC I couldn’t care less who it is.

    (But a Cisse hat-trick would be more than welcome in the West Brom game)

  3. 3
    avatar geordiedan says:

    :D

  4. 4
    avatar Tripp says:

    There’s no way refs got it right 99% of the time. Historically, across all leagues it’s more like 76% of the time. The human brain isn’t really designed to make offsides calls properly, hence the 24% cock-up rate. (my source for this is the book “Brain Bugs”, which among other things discussions how human brains aren’t really designed to measure simultaneity). So I immediately see such a claim as spurious, kinda like some dictator getting 99% of the vote year after year… it’s bollocks.

  5. 5
    avatar sammy d says:

    Evening Worky hope all is good with you, good article and it makes me wonder that with the finances involved now how far things will go, we now have goal line tech goal line officials etc will we get offside decisions being reviewed and end up with four hour matches like american football? pros and cons of getting it right could be your next metro blog. Keep the faith.

  6. 6
    avatar GS says:

    Tripp has to be right about off-sides. There is no way it is 99% and has to be closer to 80%. Just look at the arguments about whether somebody is “interfering with play”. Who was it that said if you are not interfering with play, what are you doing on the pitch then?

    How many offside calls are there in a match, like 20 (forget the non calls for now)? So that means the Ref calls an offside wrong every 5 matches. Give me a break, who do they think they are kidding?

  7. 7
    avatar tunyc says:

    99% is obviously bullshit. I’m definitely down for video replays of marginally-offside goals.

    The football offside rule looks so reasonable on paper. In practice, it’s so problematic and contentious that I’m amazed it has lasted as long as it has and they haven’t just painted a stripe on the field to mind instead of the last defender, like in hockey. Not saying that would be ideal but seeing these decisions going wrong all the time and then the leagues and refs refuse to admit it-it’s becoming infuriating. It changes results.

  8. 8
    avatar workyticket says:

    tunyc says:
    November 26, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    “The football offside rule looks so reasonable on paper. In practice, it’s so problematic and contentious that I’m amazed it has lasted as long as it has”

    Tunyc, it’s the latest version of the offside rule which is so problematic and contentious.

  9. 9
    avatar tunyc says:

    I know, worky-I just meant specifically the “last defender” part of it which, to my knowledge, is a very old (don’t know if original) element. Like I tell non-football fans when they watch with me: most football rules are so obvious and apparent that they need no explanation and the one that isn’t-offside-is never agreed upon anyway so there’s no point trying to really follow it.

  10. 10
    avatar DarthBroon says:

    As I said last season: All that fuss and money to bring in ‘Hawkeye’ just to sort out a couple of goal-line controversies every season, yet the game’s being turned into a lottery by lousy linesmen who make crap offside decisions week in and week out.

    There needs to be some kind of TV/TFourth official oversight on offside decisions. I’m not sure how that’d work out as far as playing to the referee’s whistle goes, but it’s surely time it was looked into.

  11. 11
    avatar workyticket says:

    This is the worst offside decision I’ve seen for a long, long time, Swansea v West Brom last season. Swansea lost a point because of it as well.

  12. 12
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    To right there bud this farce has gone on long enough thats 8 i count now in the last year hes had ruled offside when hes been onside,peeps say these things even out,but i aint seen cisse score a goal thats offside yet and the linesman keeps the flag down,and would go as far as to say the linesmans are ruining his career.

  13. 13
    avatar chuck says:

    Easy to blame officials, but when you have to make quick decisions and sometimes realize it was the wrong one, to then consider millions of people have witnessed it, from half a dozen angles.
    Hell it’s like eveything else, human error which has always been a part of the game.
    If you want perfection, be careful what you ask for.

  14. 14
    avatar chuck says:

    I’m not sure there’s anything untoward in the treatment of Cisse by officials, possibly even one or two have been influenced, again he plays a very close to the last defender and sometimes he goes, sometimes he breaks clean, but that’s not allways his fault as the delivery may be delayed or poor.
    However in Remy we have a natural, just need to get the ball to him.

  15. 15
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    @ chuck
    were cisse is concerned, the linesman more often than not gives the wrong call, something is not right if hes onside then its not his fault, its the linesmans fault,its his job to make the right call.

  16. 16
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    8 times he was onside insidethe last year and the linesmans puts his flag up do you not find that strange chuck

  17. 17
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    offside has to be taken out of the hands of the linesman cause they all a bunch of blind efforts in my view

  18. 18
    avatar Subz00 says:

    Why Can’t they adopt the NFL way? the official thinks he see’s an incident so flags it, the situation plays out to it’s end while the flag is being reviewed by a video ref. Simple really innit.

  19. 19
    avatar ArtyH says:

    Great article and my thoughts exactly, I said the same thing at the time last week. Its getting ridiculous now, the other side of the coin is how many times does he get away with claiming a goal when he is offside? Answer is non, so this B.S about it all evens out is rubbish. There should be some micro chip in each players shirt which could be monitored to correct this situation, just like the goal line tech we have now….but how long did that take to come in????

  20. 20
    avatar joe hawkins says:

    ArtyH, You don’t want to be going down that road, It starts at micro chipping shirts to micro chipping people full stop.
    Which is what a small minority in this World want!

  21. 21
    avatar Nutmag says:

    Well I think Rugby has got it about right. Video Ref when play stops clock stops etc. Football has become a lottery. The reason against is always the time it takes much rather that if it means a fairer outcome. At the moment TV could run a whole program every week on “Officials Howlers”

  22. 22
    avatar ArtyH says:

    @ joe very amusing comment, a bit dark but hey :). @ Nutmag well said mate and apart from mine and other options it would be great to see it brought in.

  23. 23
    avatar joe hawkins says:

    ArtyH, They have already done it with members of “The Delta Force”, In The States.
    I’ve seen some famlies in The States, Taking part in trials of RFID, Under the guise of, “If You Haven’t Done Anything Wrong, Then You Have Nothing To Fear”.
    The mother of the said family endorsing the product, And saying, “If my child goes missing, We will be able to locate them”.
    They already do it with dogs and other family pets, Why not eventually people?

    “The Totalitarian Tiptoe”, Cometh… lol

  24. 24
    avatar workyticket says:

    Joe, do you have a mobile phone?

  25. 25
    avatar tunyc says:

    Chuck-it’s not just Cisse. What’s happening to him is just an illustration of a general trend. These decisions are going wrong all the time. Accuracy that appears to be just a shade over 50% really isn’t good enough.

    I seem to recall that the PL still uses part-time linesmen. Is that true? Could be the problem right there. It does seem like linesmen in Germany (I’m watching regularly this season) are more accurate.

    As for Remy-the gushing over him is justified but for our purposes here I’ll ask: what did you think of Cisse after his first half-season here? Same thing could happen to Remy.

  26. 26
    avatar workyticket says:

    Tripp made one of the best points, because he’s right that none of us are really wired to be good at making offside decisions.

    Mistakes will be made with all players, however everything I could find seem to indicate that Cisse has been treated far worse than anyone else over the last season or two. It’s as if referees have decided to single him out for special attention at some point.

    What is most dismaying though is that so many so called Newcastle United fans have actually been convinced that he is offside more than any other player and have turned on him, even though it’s completely untrue.

  27. 27
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    <<<<<<<, likes arty idea could be the way forward

  28. 28
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    @ workyticket says
    What is most dismaying though is that so many so called Newcastle United fans have actually been convinced that he is offside more than any other player and have turned on him, even though it’s completely untrue.

    spot on bud peeps need to use there own eyes and judge the situation there selfs.

  29. 29
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    <<<<<< also think if we had gone down last season, we would of been discussing them 7 offside goals that were onside in most peeps views all summer long

  30. 30
    avatar workyticket says:

    Who I’m most dismayed with is Malcolm MacDonald, saying that Cisse is an idiot who doesn’t even understand what the offside rule is.

    I wouldn’t question MacDonald’s knowledge of the offside rule as he’s done with Cisse, but he’s just shooting his ill informed mouth off for beer money like Micky Quinn in the Chronic. He obviously hasn’t bothered to look at the evidence of how many of those offsides are wrong, or how many other Premier League strikers have been offside more than Cisse.

    At least Quinn does it for the Chronic though. MacDonald has now sunk so low that he’s doing it for Sports Direct News.

  31. 31
    avatar TOONARMYELITE says:

    @ workyticket
    if this was happening to some1 like rooney think the fa would of sorted this by now

  32. 32
    avatar GS says:

    Worky: why is McDonald so miserable? Everytime I have read anything by him or listen to radio clips, he is always moaning. He never has a good word to say about anything NUFC and yet that’s how he makes his living.

    He’s not a pundit for Fulham or Arsenal. Maybe that’s it, and he can’t understand why a mediocre player like Jamie Redknapp gets the national gig.

    He was a great player for us, but he is such a miserable sod.

  33. 33
    avatar chuck says:

    tunyc

    If it doesn’t happen to Remy, who also plays off the shoulder of the defender, then perhaps Cisse should take note.
    After all, not all of those decisions were wrong.

  34. 34
    avatar chuck says:

    I’m curious, as to how many people have actually read the rules of association football.
    If there ‘s anyone out there that can tell me where the demarcation line is when calling an offside, where one of the attacking players though in an offside position, is ignored because he is not interfearing with play.
    “Determining whether a player is in activ play can be complex” is how it’s described, which is no way for any rule to have to be described.
    Why not revert to back to the original intent and not attempt to complicate or cause controversy by introducing a rule that “if complex”, has no right to be there.

  35. 35
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 27, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    “Worky: why is McDonald so miserable?”

    I don’t know.

    As you may recall, he retired early with a bad injury which caused him chronic pain. He used to drink lots of whisky to numb it and eventually ended up as an alcoholic.

    As well as that, he might also look at players playing on the same level as him today getting 10-50 times as much, He failed as manager, his minor radio show with the two other has-beens was axed and now he’s reduced to eking out a living trying to get the odd gig on the after dinner speaking circuit, being a rent-a-quote for shite like Sports Direct News, and so on…

    Maybe some of that lot has something to do with it?

  36. 36
    avatar chuck says:

    Worky

    See what you have started!

    With the use of modern technology, especially video replays, the jobs of the officials has become very difficult, with each close call being examined by inquiring video replays, covering every percievable angle.

    Perhaps we should have more officials ?

    It appears that there are flaws in the recently introduced goal line technology in trials.

    The card system IMO should be replaced by the sin bin, as in rugby and ice hockey.

    There should be a time clock used, stopping and restarting while the ball is in and out of play, thirty minutes each way.

    Which would show us more football than including in the present forty five minutes per half, with the ball both in and out of play, plus let everyone know exactly how much time is either played or left in the game.

    Which in turn would do away with the frustration of sides wasting time.

    I think there should be better use of video replays, if we the fans can judge replays, then why not a fifth official, with access to the same videos, who can over rule the ref.

    However only in situations where carding offences or goalscoring opportunities are conserned, so as not to interfear with the flow of the game.

    These are simly suggestions, what we dont want to do is take the human factor out of the game, where technilogical devices ovrsee the game, rather than it being the simple game we have known for years.

    And a bit more understanding of the job of the officials, as i believe for the most part they do a pretty good job, all things considered.

    Plus it’s good to hear the occasional commentators agree that the ref or linesman has made the correct call, as it’s all too easy to criticise.

  37. 37
    avatar tunyc says:

    In other news, it looks like Brazil’s WC preparations are literally falling apart.

    International football isn’t covering itself in glory lately. Personally, I’ve lost any appetite for it.

    Chuck @ 33: what I meant is that Remy could experience a dip in form like Cisse’s.

    @34: I’ve read the law, cover to cover, at least 20 times, 2-3 times for each of the last 6-8 revisions. I ref pub leagues for fun and (very small) profit. It’s actually not that long a read.

    Again, does anyone know if the linesmen used by the PL are full-time, professional officials?

  38. 38
    avatar chuck says:

    Hey this is a tough crowd !
    From hero to zero, poor old Super Mac, trying to hustle a living, but get’s , no respect, Eh!
    Thats a pretty cutting description Worky, with terms like failed, alcoholic, axed, eking out a living etc.
    Give the guy a break, even if it’s true FFS.

  39. 39
    avatar GS says:

    There’s an article on Football 365 today saying Pardew gets no respect from us partly because he is a cockney. Really? To get to Chucks point, Supermac was adored by us, same with Sir Les and many others from the London area.

    Chuck, you should have a read or listen to what Supermac says. Honestly, everything is negative which is what I was saying. Nobody begrudges him a living, but it would be nice for him to offer some encouragement now and again.

  40. 40
    avatar chuck says:

    OK ! heres a rule that few know about.
    How many can honestly say they were aware, that a player taking an indirect free kick, that ends up in his own goal is not counted as an own goal, but results in the opposition recieving a corner kick.
    Hmmm !

  41. 41
    avatar workyticket says:

    chuck says:
    November 27, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    “If there ‘s anyone out there that can tell me where the demarcation line is when calling an offside, where one of the attacking players though in an offside position, is ignored because he is not interfearing with play.”

    It’s in front of the SECOND OPPOSING DEFENDER (including the goalkeeper). That’s an importnat bit if the goalie is in front of two outfield players.

    A player is active if he’s touched the ball, obstructed an opposition player from touching the ball, obstructed his view or generally gained an advantage by being in front of the second opposition player. It’s become so difficult in practice nowadays with deciding who is active at what time, or even what is active that even pros scratch their heads over it.

    That isn’t the point with Cisse though. He’s an off the shoulder player who can be genuinely offside quite alot, but from all the data I can see, and the football itself, he gets a much harder time than other strikers who are offside even more than he is.

    Have a look at the rules for yourself, Chuck, here’s the Bible.

    http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/81/42/36/log2013en_neutral.pdf

  42. 42
    avatar chuck says:

    Of course i ment untouched be anyone but the free kick taker, the possibilities of this ever accuring are remote we know, but emphasises that an indirect free kick is just that.

  43. 43
    avatar GS says:

    Chuck @36: most of that isn’t going to happen but the timekeeping should be taken out of the hands of the Ref. The clock should be stopped for a technical review of a penalty and for a major injury when there is a concussion or a stretcher is called for.

    You would ruin the whole flow, history and enjoyment of the game if you make it like American Football and stop the clock for every infringement.

  44. 44
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 27, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    “There’s an article on Football 365 today saying Pardew gets no respect from us partly because he is a cockney. Really? To get to Chucks point, Supermac was adored by us, same with Sir Les and many others from the London area.”

    All that lot were from London, posh bits like Fulham, Kensington and Chelsea in the case of Supermac, Sir Les and Dennis Wise, and Wimbledon in the southern suburbs for Pardew. However, the only proper jellied eel munching, knees up loving east end ‘Cockney’ was Chris Hughton from Stratford. Did he get no respect because he was a Cockney?

  45. 45
    avatar GS says:

    Worky: I lived in Southfields for a year, which as you know is just next to Wimbledon Common.

  46. 46
    avatar chuck says:

    Worky

    Any offside call that is admittedly considered complex, should not be a rule, as the danger of it being missinterpreted by different officials makes it an arbitrary rule.
    Rules are rules are rules, there is no room for wouldda, couldda, shouldda.

  47. 47
  48. 48
    avatar GS says:

    Worky @44: you mean Hughton who is often referred to as Irish because he played for Ireland because of some ancestry.

  49. 49
    avatar chuck says:

    Wile we are on the subject of those from the big city.
    Appears Pardew is safe (much to my chagrin) but say he was about to be replaced (Ye kna, like he got the Engerland gig or summat)
    Who would be a fan favourite to replace him, well not perhaps a fan favourite, but someone who understands the way the modern game is played and could both get the best out of our squad and hopefully have them playing entertaining football.

  50. 50
    avatar GS says:

    Sorry I changed the subject. The offside discussion was getting very technical.

    You have to admit Pardew has made a few changes, at least for now:

    He has stopped hoofing as much, plays a high pressing game sometimes, subs like for like a lot more and somehow has kept Cisse and Ben Arfa semi-happy and included when not starting them.

    I thought he would stick to his old ways but I think he realized he had to do something or get sacked. As I said before, I think Ashley was at some of the games earlier in the season to sack Pardew in the dressing room if we didn’t perform.

  51. 51
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 27, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    “Worky @44: you mean Hughton who is often referred to as Irish because he played for Ireland because of some ancestry.”

    His mother (Christine) was born in Ireland and his father (Willie) was born in Ghana. In Hughton’s Wiki entry it says that his dad was a postman but it doesn’t say that he was also a footballer with a big Afro hairstyle.

  52. 52
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 27, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    “plays a high pressing game sometimes”

    That must be when I keep nipping off to the lavatory, GS. :-)

  53. 53
    avatar chuck says:

    The real crux of the offside rule is the eye has to be fixed on two seperate targets simultaneously, not always possible.
    As we are all aware it’s the position of the player about to receive the ball as the ball leaves the foot of the passer, that is he deciding factor.
    Plus we know having to use peripheral vision can be dodgy at best.
    In which case the linesman or ref’s eye must be on the passer then shift, to decide exactly where the receiver is located, a possible half second or more, where someone already moving at speed can cover some distance.
    Resulting in a difficult call to make, which even when shown by video replays become debateable.
    I think we should have a bit of sympathy with not only with officials, but with Super Mac also.
    After all he was one of Tynesides hero’s once.

  54. 54
    avatar chuck says:

    Well! outta here, Amstell time, later.

  55. 55
    avatar workyticket says:

    chuck says:
    November 27, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    “Hey this is a tough crowd !
    From hero to zero, poor old Super Mac, trying to hustle a living, but get’s , no respect, Eh!
    Thats a pretty cutting description Worky, with terms like failed, alcoholic, axed, eking out a living etc.
    Give the guy a break, even if it’s true FFS.”

    Chuck you do have a very good point, especially so as I used to meet him when I was bairn and have gone through some of the same things he has since.

    However, I never would have written that if MacDonald had given poor Cisse a break and hadn’t kicked his fellow number 9 when he’s down. What is more, he was misinformed and didn’t bother to check his facts properly before jumping in with the lynch mob. Finally, he did it for thirty pieces of silver from Sports Direct News (Booooo!).

    I will continue to defend Iron Mike from his rude and ill informed critics too, Chuck! :-)

  56. 56
    avatar GS says:

    Worky: I didn’t know about Supermac’s personal history. I was only commenting on the fact he never seems happy. He is a true NUFC legend though and I watched him many times live.

    In the article today by Mick Quinn, the Chronic describe Mick Quinn as “Newcastle Legend”. C’mon, now that is going too far.

  57. 57
    avatar GS says:

    What’s that phrase people use “legend in his own lunch time”? Now that would apply to Mick Quinn.

  58. 58
    avatar workyticket says:

    Aye but every time was lunchtime for Micky Quinn, GS.

  59. 59
    avatar bob the vid says:

    I agree with everything you guys have said about the offside rule and the ways. To tackle it but as a footnote l seem to remember reading somewhere back in 1900 hundred and frozen to death that it was a Newcastle player that started the damn rule in the 1st place!

  60. 60
    avatar pete_toon says:

    GS. The amount of pies that Mick Quinn ate was truly legendary. His contribution to the growth of Greggs can only be marvelled at.

  61. 61
    avatar workyticket says:

    The fat bastard was banned from racing for starving his horses though.

  62. 62
    avatar tattyheed says:

    ^^harsh.

    he still has a trainers licence – so it couldn’t have been as bad as you make out.

    Anyway – Quinny is still the only voice of support that we have on the ‘popular’ Talkshite radio.

    I’d still like him to knock Adrian Durhams smug block off though – and do us all a favour

  63. 63
    avatar DarthBroon says:

    I agree with tattyheed.

    There isn’t much wrong with Micky Quinn and I, like most toon fans, liked him well enough when he was banging the goals in for us. He’s entitled to his say as far as I’m concerned.

  64. 64
    avatar workyticket says:

    bob the vid says:
    November 28, 2013 at 1:02 am

    “l seem to remember reading somewhere back in 1900 hundred and frozen to death that it was a Newcastle player that started the damn rule in the 1st place!”

    They had to change it from three opposition players to two because of Newcastle United’s Bill McCracken and a few others who copied his method for trapping the opposition offside.

    He was a part of Newcastle United’s greatest ever team, the Edwardian one captained by the great Colin Veitch. Veitch was extremely intelligent for a footballer, he had an excellent tactical brain which helped to make us the best and most innovative side of the day.

  65. 65
    avatar joe hawkins says:

    He’s alright Malcolm, He’s no Big Time Charlie or owt like that!
    Used to see him around the Heaton road area, When him and Carol, Brian Johnson’s ex missus, Used to go for a game of Bingo.
    Everyone would stop him and see how he was going, Because he had just had surgery done on his knees.
    He was on crutches at the time, And he was trying to keep off the drink.
    He used to say the drink had absolutely done him in, And he was quite happy to have a good crack on with people, And he was very open about his problems.

    He’s basically a sound bloke!

  66. 66
    avatar pete_toon says:

    Slightly OT, but I’d like to admit that I’ve been wrong about Tiote this season. I’ve been as guilty as anyone about having a go at Tiote for continually putting in dodgy challenges.

    This season though, his timing’s been absolutely shed loads better. 12 appearances and 2 yellow cards – that’s a much better performance from him.

  67. 67
    avatar workyticket says:

    tattyheed says:
    November 28, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    “^^harsh.

    “he still has a trainers licence – so it couldn’t have been as bad as you make out.”

    He was banned for a 2 1/2 years when three of his horses were found starving so no, not harsh at all really. There was all that outcry over someone trying to punching a horse and getting a year in prison for it, but starving three horses is far worse.

    On the subjest of prison, Quinn was banned for drink driving once as well and just kept on driving as if nothing had happened. He kept getting done for driving while banned (and speeding) until they had to lock him up.

  68. 68
    avatar joe hawkins says:

    Quinny, Oh me mother will not have a word said against him.
    She used to see him regularly at St James’ Park, When he was here.
    My Cousin has always worked security up there for years, And used to get tickets to all kind of parties.
    My mother and my Aunts would always get to go to these said do’s, And she met Quinny on numerous occasions.
    He loved it up here, And said Newcastle was a home away from home.
    He said Geordies and Scousers were similar people, And it didn’t take much for him to settle in.
    One particular night she ran into him was after he scored a Hattrick against Brighton at the old “Goldstone Ground”.
    So he was in celebratory mood, And was buying everyone drinks, Because Quinny is a right p***head, And no one likes a drink more than him.

    The night before the First Leg Play-off game against Sunderland at Roker Park, Quinny was on the drink till about 3 or 4 in the morning.
    That’s the game when Paul Hardyman kicked Budgie in the heed, After he saved the penalty.
    I remember the commentator on the radio saying, “Mick Quinn doesn’t look his usual self today”.
    Aye, Because he has a massive hangover from the previous nights excess!

  69. 69
    avatar tattyheed says:

    worky

    ‘keeper of our moral keys’

  70. 70
    avatar GS says:

    Darth: I have lived away from Newcastle for more than 30 years and didn’t see much of Quinn. I hear and read more about him now with the internet. My remark was directed more at the Chronic calling him a “Newcastle Legend”.

  71. 71
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 28, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    “Darth: I have lived away from Newcastle for more than 30 years and didn’t see much of Quinn.”

    From what I can recall not that many saw alot of Quinn. There’d only be crowds of 15,000 or so alot of the time back then as it was the real dark days of the Second Division with Jim ‘Bald Eagle’ Smith and Ossie Ardiles. With Ardiles we were even worried about getting relegated to the third tier. Quinn did score alot of goals in his first season though, albeit at a lower level. His belly would wobble up and down terribly when he was in full flight and it wasn’t a pretty sight.

  72. 72
    avatar GS says:

    I see we’re aiming for the Champions League again :)

  73. 73
    avatar AndyMac says:

    I see your “protege” Vuckic has been loaned out again WT ?

    Every time he leaves he goes to a lower club, pretty soon he’ll be at the Heed :)

    Something is drastically wrong with our development system when poor old JJ, who had the talent coached out of him in the two years he was on Tyneside, now cant even make the first team squad at Northampton ? It’s Cobblers :)

    http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/sport/football/alfreton-ex-newcastle-united-prospect-signs-for-reds-on-loan-1-6283734

  74. 74
    avatar DarthBroon says:

    GS says:
    November 28, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    ‘My remark was directed more at the Chronic calling him a “Newcastle Legend”.’

    Aye, I think the Chronic referring to him as a ‘Newcastle Legend’ is a bit of a stretch as well GS. But I think he did a good job for us at a difficult period (another one) in the club’s history and I have a fair bit of respect for the guy. He always speaks well of us and uses the word ‘we’ when he speaks of NUFC – we all know there have been plenty of players who left the club a didn’t have a good word to say about us.

  75. 75
    avatar workyticket says:

    AndyMac, to be fair, I wouldn’t necessarily blame the coaching in Vuckic’s case. Until recently he has just been getting one serious injury after another which have damaged his development at the most important stage in his career.

    That Hull City owner could give Ashley a run for his money. He really is a complete and utter knob. His interview should get some kind of award for worst lying ever (even worse than Llambias when he was at Newcastle!)

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/hull-city-assem-allam-interview-2784476

  76. 76
    avatar workyticket says:

    That’s another mind numbingly awful offside decision given against Swansea. They were completely robbed of a perfectly good equalising goal when they were 0-1 against Valencia. Bony had just bust his hamstring as well and Michu is out also. It would have been a great excusefest if it was Pardew.

  77. 77
    avatar chuck says:

    The Great Dane is having that second year jinx.
    Last year there was a distinct difference, between Swansea and Cardiff, not this year, whatever that means.
    Perhaps they too have an unperforming striker.

  78. 78
    avatar workyticket says:

    chuck says:
    November 29, 2013 at 4:09 am

    “Perhaps they too have an unperforming striker.”

    Not really Chuck, though their two biggest goalscorers, Bony and Michu are knacked now as Bony did his hamstring yesterday evening and Michu already had a knee problem. They’ve had a run of bad luck with decisions too.

  79. 79
    avatar joe hawkins says:

    Well Pardew gets a few wins and all of a sudden, Him and the deluded section of the support are talking about a top 4 finish zzzzzzzzz!

    Okay we were good against Chelsea, And deserved the win.

    We had a good first half against Spurs, But overall were lucky to come away with anything.

    We went two goals up against Norwich, But Hughton’s charges were lucky not to come away with at least a point.

    We’re still not that good imo, And a better manager is still required to get us playing decent football.
    True to form the sad thing is, Pardew is going to dine out on those three wins until February.

  80. 80
    avatar workyticket says:

    joe hawkins says:
    November 29, 2013 at 11:04 am

    “Well Pardew gets a few wins and all of a sudden, Him and the deluded section of the support are talking about a top 4 finish zzzzzzzzz!”

    That’s the way alot of people are though, Joe. They don’t really remember much from the past so they can’t predict the future very well and just live in the here and now.

    A mere three results and that protest movement against Ashley is all but dead now. There was six years of awfulness from Ashley and three good games is all it took to take the wind out of their sails.

  81. 81
    avatar Nutmag says:

    Said it before what would you rather have Good Manager or Lucky Manager? Season before last “lucky season” Last season “unlucky season” This season three or four games lucky so far. When did we look comfortable for 90 minutes or the best part of 90 minutes. Not only do you not know what team is going to turn up its mostly a different team each half. This has got to be down to the manager. After the Hull and Sunderland shambles it will take a lot more than a couple of wins to win me over.
    Worky@80
    As with politics people have short memories. If you don’t learn from history you will be forced to relive it!

  82. 82
    avatar GS says:

    Cardiff were in a different division to Swansea last season Chuck. I think their owner gives Fatman a run when it comes to bizarre decisions. The bluebirds are playing in red and they sacked the director of football and hired one of his son’s mates.

  83. 83
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 29, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    “Cardiff were in a different division to Swansea last season Chuck. I think their owner gives Fatman a run when it comes to bizarre decisions.”

    The Hull owner Assem Allam really takes the biscuit, GS. He’s totally bonkers and quite possibly the world’s most ridiculous and embarrassing liar ever over his changes of the club’s name. He’s told Hull fans that the club’s name is “lousy” and “common” and they can all “go to hell” too.

  84. 84
    avatar workyticket says:

    Nutmag says:
    November 29, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    “Said it before what would you rather have Good Manager or Lucky Manager?”

    How long does luck last for, Nutmag?

  85. 85
    avatar joe hawkins says:

    Worky, What hope do we have, When you have dick heads who are all too easily pleased?

  86. 86
    avatar workyticket says:

    Has anyone else out there noticed an Egyptian Basel player called Mohamed Salah in the Champions League and Europa League over the past couple of seasons? He’s only about 21.

    He scored against Chelsea the other evening and I watched him scoring against them last season too. He’s a special player who should be relatively cheap but I can’t watch the Swiss League. I can only see him in the Champions League or if there’s an Egypt game on.

  87. 87
    avatar Nutmag says:

    Worky@84
    Luck is unreliable which describes guess who?

  88. 88
    avatar GS says:

    Worky says:

    “How long does luck last for, Nutmag?”

    Hopefully, at least 4 games.

    Pardew is getting all smug again. However, we have a settled team which has been good for us in the past. When he doesn’t tinker, we tend to go on a good run (albeit with the odd hammering like Wigan or Spurs when we finished 5th)

    Pardew is going to pick Coloccini and Williamson. A bit unfair on M’Biwa but Colo is a very good player when his head is right.

    People are acting like Shane Long is the second coming of Dennis Bergkamp. He only had one goal before the Villa game.

  89. 89
  90. 90
    avatar workyticket says:

    Basel’s Fabian Schar would be a good centre back for Newcastle as well. He could be my new Vertonghen but I can’t watch Basel that much unfortunately. Like Salah he’s also 21.

  91. 91
    avatar DarthBroon says:

    workyticket says:
    November 28, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    “That’s another mind numbingly awful offside decision given against Swansea”

    Dreadful – exactly the kind of sh|t decision we’re talking about. Linesman’s behind the play anyway; can’t make head nor tail of what he’s seen; clenches his @rse cheeks and sticks his flag out hoping he’s got it right.

    It’s turning every game into a lottery.

  92. 92
    avatar chuck says:

    Worky @86 #
    Has anyone else noticed him ?
    Erm yeah ! Liverpool are reported to be prepared to bid on him during the next window.

  93. 93
    avatar workyticket says:

    DarthBroon says:
    November 29, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    “Dreadful – exactly the kind of sh|t decision we’re talking about.”

    Bad as it was though, it wasn’t quite as bad as the one I linked to at comment 11. That one came off two West Brom players before Swansea’s Lamah scored and couldn’t have been offside in a million years. It was bad as that one where the goal was given when it didn’t even go in the goal but down the side of the goal if you remember that one?

  94. 94
    avatar chuck says:

    Yes the recent flukey wins (three in a row) has certainly taken a heavy load off Pardew, but only disguises his lack of tactical nous.
    If one looks back on the majority of games played this season, we see the same old pattern, play hard and gain a goal or two advantage, then shut the door.
    Not even using our midfield and strikers pace to run up the score by taking advantage of the fast break, while opportunities present themselves, with the opposition pressing.
    Only content to (as they were probably instructed) keep the ball upfield.
    It’s as familiar a pattern as both Jonas and Santons, cutting to-wards the center, when bringing the ball upfield.
    Yes we are predictable, why, because of Pardews lack of imagination.
    Take for instance, following any win, you can bet your ass he fields the exact same side, regardles of who we are to play.
    No horses for courses, or perhaps even a tweak to possibly counter the oppositions danger men.
    Though i have to give credit for the way both M’biwa and Santon took Townsend completely out of the game against Spurs.
    This next game against WBA should be a good indication of what lies ahead this season, whether we are for real (no not RM) or on a rollercoaster ride with little or no consistency.

  95. 95
    avatar workyticket says:

    chuck says:
    November 29, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    “Worky @86 #
    Has anyone else noticed him ?
    Erm yeah ! Liverpool are reported to be prepared to bid on him during the next window.”

    Doesn’t surprise me, Chuck, scouts must have noticed him the in the Europa League last season if I did, he was giving Gareth Bale and top Chelsea players a run for their money and scoring against Chelsea two years in a row.

    I thought you would have been more interested in Fabian Schar the centre back though as you’re always moaning about the ones we have. Like Salah, he looks like a very impressive player who could be with a top team in the future. I’ve been keeping an eye on Basel since the Europa League last season.

  96. 96
    avatar chuck says:

    C’mon folks, can we can, the “lets blame the officials” nonsense.
    Face it they are no more infallible than the players and contrary to belief are no better or worse than those who called the games years ago.
    It’s human error, a part of the game and works both ways.
    Enough excuse making and whining, get over it!

  97. 97
    avatar GS says:

    When I was about 8, a school teacher said I was good at writing, but should use more commas. Next assignment I randomly put commas in my homework. I wrote the thing and went back and just stuck commas in with no understanding of where or why – I was 8. I probably still haven’t fully mastered the comma, but:

    Now I see from Chuck’s writing that putting in random commas is the way to go.

    CHUCK: Pardew is not smart enough for “horses for courses”, when he tries it, he fails.

  98. 98
    avatar GS says:

    Actually Chuck, I take that back. You are doing good with the commas today :)

  99. 99
    avatar workyticket says:

    chuck says:
    November 29, 2013 at 7:13 pm (Edit)

    “Yes the recent flukey wins (three in a row) has certainly taken a heavy load off Pardew, but only disguises his lack of tactical nous.”

    It’s unfair to describe those three wins as “flukey.” I don’t remeber any of the five goals being especially flukey and there was some really excellent defending and goalkeeping against the two big teams.

    chuck says:
    November 29, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    “C’mon folks, can we can, the “lets blame the officials” nonsense.”

    Chuck, I’m sorry but if you don’t realise how bad that offside at 11 was, then you just don’t understand the rules of football, or the difference between understandable fallibility and complete incompetence from a so called professional assistant at the highest level.

  100. 100
    avatar chuck says:

    I have a Swiss friend, who is a fan of Basel.
    Who by the way in case no one had noticed, have been a top side and very hard to play against for the last few years.
    Not only that, but the Swiss national side is not bad either.
    Yes i watched the tape of the young CD, but it concentrated more on his attacking game than his on his defending.
    Though we are in dire need of a big man who can score in the air, from set plays.
    But yes in general he’s the type of player we desperatly need to strengthen the defense, and one only has to check out our goals against record to realise it.
    If i were Ashley, i would concentrate on acquiring a decent set of center backs, before a sign anyone.
    But what do i know.

  101. 101
    avatar GS says:

    All Pardew bashing aside, we do have a good chance against West Brom. As I said, we have a settled side with wingers who really put in a lot of effort and a striker who is in top (top) form.

    The glass should be half full at the moment, even though we know Pardew is not the best manager out there.

  102. 102
    avatar chuck says:

    Worky
    The game against Spurs was a total fluke, as were some of the saves, all three wins could just as easily been three losses.

  103. 103
    avatar GS says:

    Chuck @102: you could say that about all of our games this season, except Citeh. We could have easily won against Hull and Sunderland. Hell, we even made a game of it against Everton after Big Mike saved the day.

  104. 104
    avatar workyticket says:

    chuck says:
    November 29, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    “But yes in general he’s the type of player we desperatly need to strengthen the defense, and one only has to check out our goals against record to realise it.”

    The goals against haven’t been bad at all since the arrival of the Williamson for the second half of the Everton game. We’ve only let in an average of a goal a game in our last six Premier League games and that’s good.

  105. 105
    avatar chuck says:

    Worky
    No i didn’t see the the Swansea game you are talking about (only watch the top sides these days)
    So in fact i dont know how bad a decision it was.
    But even watching the Cisse offside goal, it was dificult to figure whether or not he was offside or not.
    Given the official was almost on top of it, give him some credit.
    And yes i believe i have a decent understanding of the rules of football by the way.
    On the other hand it’s unbecoming for a manager to place blame on the officials (having one who has a whole store-room full of excuses) being bad calls happen through human error (a part of the game, which evens out eventually)
    As i mentioned in an earlier rant, be carefull what you ask for, more officials, sure if that’s what’s needed.
    But the last thing we want is for the game to be controlled by electronic devices, as opposed to human oversight.
    I mean the new electronic device, that is being introduced (goal line technology) has already prove to be as fallible as humans , by making errors of judgement.
    What do we do then, rage against the machines ?

  106. 106
    avatar chuck says:

    Worky

    We are a joint fifth place, in regard to letting in goals.
    We may have improved a bit lately, but to call the fact we have a tie between goals for and against, does not impress me.
    And C’mon with the upping your Iron Mike. we all know he will be relegated to the bench as soon as we have our real CD’s fit.
    Perhaps the real reason is that Pardew has curbed the constant runs upfield of our wingbacks, forcing them to do a bit of defending.
    But we are weak at the center of defense, certainly when it comes to set plays, either defensive or defensive.

  107. 107
    avatar chuck says:

    …Or offensive

  108. 108
    avatar GS says:

    I don’t want to get into a fight, but:

    Chuck me Duck, says:

    “Perhaps the real reason is that Pardew has curbed the constant runs upfield of our wingbacks, forcing them to do a bit of defending.”

    Isn’t that giving Pardew credit for realizing his tactics are wrong and fixing them? I never thought I would see the day.

    I got carried away calling Chuck “me Duck” because we are playing a West Meedlands teem, and they use that phrase a lot.

  109. 109
    avatar chuck says:

    As i said above this game against a well drilled Clarke side, with some hard working players, will tell the story.
    And with Debuchy available to then play Williamson is only asking for trouble, a dumb move IMO.
    Though coming from Pardew not surprising, as i mentioned he has this thng about playing the same side following a win, regardless of the opposition.
    This is a decent West Brom side, with some very good players and were i a betting man, i would put a couple of bob on them, especially when it’s basically Clarke vs Pardew.
    And predict that the selection of Williamson, in place of M,biwa, will play a major part.

  110. 110
    avatar chuck says:

    Amstel time !

  111. 111
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 29, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    “I got carried away calling Chuck “me Duck” because we are playing a West Meedlands teem, and they use that phrase a lot.”

    I think that’s more East Midlands like Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire than West Midlands?

    ‘Chuck’ always makes me think of a Lancashire lass as in ‘yes Chuck, no Chuck’ etc…

  112. 112
    avatar GS says:

    You’re probably right Worky as I remember the cleaning lady in college in Leicester calling me “me Duck”. I thought it was the whole Midlands. I only went to Brum once, the Bool reeng.

  113. 113
    avatar workyticket says:

    GS says:
    November 29, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    “I only went to Brum once, the Bool reeng.”

    It’s all changed since you were here. GS.

    http://www.aeroengland.co.uk/birmingham-bm53.htm

  114. 114
    avatar stewpot says:

    @worky & GS

    “me duck” is indeed east midlands although more nottingham/mansfield. just “duck” or “ducky” is favoured over the derby side of the m1. not sure if it extends down to leicester.

    i believe the equivalent in the black country would be “bab”.

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